Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial • Hacker News Board

Re: Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

#411

Post by baobabKoodaa » Tue, Feb 13, 2024, 8:53 PM UTC

AlbertCory wrote: post #395

baobabKoodaa wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seemed to have entirely missed my point so I'll just reiterate it with different words: simple actions that one person can choose to do - such as sending letters, calling representatives, or signing online petitions - have no effect. None whatsoever. The world is exactly the same place if I take action, compared to if I take no action. You claim that an ordinary person, such as myself, could affect real change by…

I didn't miss your point at all. It's just wrong. The comment was addressed to several hundred thousand people, not just to you. But how's this: You just keep sitting there and playing games on your console, because you wouldn't be a good spokesperson. Never Doubt That a Small Group of Thoughtful, Committed Citizens Can Change the World; Indeed, It’s the Only Thing That Ever Has (not really Margaret Mead, according t…

> Get well soon.

Just imagine the things you can achieve in politics with that level of sincerity!

Re: Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

#412

Post by freejazz » Tue, Feb 13, 2024, 8:53 PM UTC

anonymouskimmer wrote: post #407

freejazz wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't work and the only historical evidence you can point to is the merchant of venice, not the actual theories of property rights the drafters had in mind. This is an asinine argument. Exclusive here doesn't mean the owner can't sell, it means he's the only person who can decide to sell. That's why it's their exclusive right.

It's asinine to expect citizens in a democratic republic to have to accept the word of experts as to the rights that they enjoy.

You don't, use the damn dictionary as I insisted to you several times. Nothing I've pointed out relies upon some expert meaning of those words.

Re: Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

#413

Post by muzz » Tue, Feb 13, 2024, 8:55 PM UTC

Intermernet wrote: post #371

yashap wrote: post #175

Nice to see Cloudflare fighting the good fight, but patent trolls aren’t the only issue with software patents. A major issue that people talk about way less is well funded/large companies getting bullshit patents, and using them to sue their small startup competitors into the ground. It doesn’t even matter if they win - when a company with billions in the bank sues a company with millions in the bank, the small compa…

If companies are found to have filed bad faith patents, there should be a rapidly escalating cost increase for future patents, ending in penalties including their existing patents being legally released into the public domain. There is, of course, the usual problems of companies spinning up shell companies to mitigate the risk, but that's a different problem that needs fixing for a whole bunch of reasons.

The company that filed the patent didn't sue anyone. It died almost 2 decades ago. The entity that acquired the assets is the one doing the suing.

Re: Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

#414

Post by freejazz » Tue, Feb 13, 2024, 8:58 PM UTC

berniedurfee wrote: post #170

duped wrote: post #31

There needs to be a "use it or lose it" doctrine/law around technological IP. I get all the arguments around creating a market for the patent rights, but it just leads to these bottom feeders creating no value and increasing costs for the industry and consumers.

100% agree. Pretty sure the original idea of patents was to protect the inventor while they brought a product to market or licensed the patent to others to improve their products. Holding a patent without even attempting to bring the idea to market should invalidate the patent after some reasonable amount of time. The whole system as it is today needs a hard sanity check.

>Pretty sure the original idea of patents was to protect the inventor while they brought a product to market or licensed the patent to others to improve their products.

It was to protect the inventor so that when they did take it to market, or license it, someone else couldn't just make a copy of the same thing and sell it for cheaper not having to recoup r&d costs.

>Holding a patent without even attempting to bring the idea to market should invalidate the patent after some reasonable amount of time.

Patents are already invalid after a certain amount of time. I'm not sure what you think a reasonable time to bring a new invention to market is, but it's not far off from what the limits on patents are already today anyway.

By the way, where do you think these patents come from? They belong to companies that couldn't succeed in the market for various reasons. They go under and they sell their assets, which in these cases include any claims that could accrue to them by the short period of exclusivity granted to them for their invention.

Re: Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

#415

Post by anonymouskimmer » Tue, Feb 13, 2024, 9:08 PM UTC

freejazz wrote: post #409

anonymouskimmer wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YOU ARE TOO USED TO ARGUING WITH OTHER LAWYERS THAT YOU HAVE FORGOTTEN HOW TO CONVERSE AND LEAD PEOPLE TO THE TRUTH. In my "arguments" as you call them I am not citing jack shit other than the constitution, time-specific definitions, and some recollections. AGAIN I AM A CITIZEN TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE LAW BY READING THE PLAIN TEXT OF THE LAW. > including the founders themselves, who you cannot cite to say meant that…

>YOU ARE TOO USED TO ARGUING WITH OTHER LAWYERS THAT YOU HAVE FORGOTTEN HOW TO CONVERSE AND LEAD PEOPLE TO THE TRUTH. No, you're talking out of your ass, and you wont listen to reason. >AGAIN, I SAID THAT I FINALLY UNDERSTOOD THAT THEY CAN EXCLUSIVELY LICENSE THEIR RIGHTS. BUT THE CONSTITUTION DOES NOT GRANT CONGRESS THE AUTHORITY TO GRANT RIGHTS TO SOMEONE WHO IS NOT THE ORIGINATOR. SO I WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW…

You are the one who decided to use rude words. I didn't.

Re: Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

#416

Post by anonymouskimmer » Tue, Feb 13, 2024, 9:15 PM UTC

freejazz wrote: post #409

anonymouskimmer wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YOU ARE TOO USED TO ARGUING WITH OTHER LAWYERS THAT YOU HAVE FORGOTTEN HOW TO CONVERSE AND LEAD PEOPLE TO THE TRUTH. In my "arguments" as you call them I am not citing jack shit other than the constitution, time-specific definitions, and some recollections. AGAIN I AM A CITIZEN TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THE LAW BY READING THE PLAIN TEXT OF THE LAW. > including the founders themselves, who you cannot cite to say meant that…

>YOU ARE TOO USED TO ARGUING WITH OTHER LAWYERS THAT YOU HAVE FORGOTTEN HOW TO CONVERSE AND LEAD PEOPLE TO THE TRUTH. No, you're talking out of your ass, and you wont listen to reason. >AGAIN, I SAID THAT I FINALLY UNDERSTOOD THAT THEY CAN EXCLUSIVELY LICENSE THEIR RIGHTS. BUT THE CONSTITUTION DOES NOT GRANT CONGRESS THE AUTHORITY TO GRANT RIGHTS TO SOMEONE WHO IS NOT THE ORIGINATOR. SO I WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW…

Did property rights at the time, given the existence of slavery, allow a person to sell themselves into slavery?

None of this shit is "obvious" without understanding a lot of legal basis. I didn't understand the legal basis until this discussion.

Re: Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

#417

Post by AlbertCory » Tue, Feb 13, 2024, 9:19 PM UTC

baobabKoodaa wrote: post #411

AlbertCory wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't miss your point at all. It's just wrong. The comment was addressed to several hundred thousand people, not just to you. But how's this: You just keep sitting there and playing games on your console, because you wouldn't be a good spokesperson. Never Doubt That a Small Group of Thoughtful, Committed Citizens Can Change the World; Indeed, It’s the Only Thing That Ever Has (not really Margaret Mead, according t…

> Get well soon. Just imagine the things you can achieve in politics with that level of sincerity!

totally sincere: you do need to get over it. Bye for now.

Re: Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

#418

Post by freejazz » Tue, Feb 13, 2024, 11:12 PM UTC

anonymouskimmer wrote: post #416

freejazz wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>YOU ARE TOO USED TO ARGUING WITH OTHER LAWYERS THAT YOU HAVE FORGOTTEN HOW TO CONVERSE AND LEAD PEOPLE TO THE TRUTH. No, you're talking out of your ass, and you wont listen to reason. >AGAIN, I SAID THAT I FINALLY UNDERSTOOD THAT THEY CAN EXCLUSIVELY LICENSE THEIR RIGHTS. BUT THE CONSTITUTION DOES NOT GRANT CONGRESS THE AUTHORITY TO GRANT RIGHTS TO SOMEONE WHO IS NOT THE ORIGINATOR. SO I WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW…

Did property rights at the time, given the existence of slavery, allow a person to sell themselves into slavery? None of this shit is "obvious" without understanding a lot of legal basis. I didn't understand the legal basis until this discussion.

Patents can't sell themselves, just the same as a house or slave. I think that's consistent with their conception of property rights, which save for slavery, remains unchanged in today's society. I do wonder if you think before you post.

Re: Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

#419

Post by baobabKoodaa » Wed, Feb 14, 2024, 12:28 AM UTC

AlbertCory wrote: post #417

baobabKoodaa wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Get well soon. Just imagine the things you can achieve in politics with that level of sincerity!

totally sincere: you do need to get over it. Bye for now.

To get over what, exactly? The claim you made was false, I called you out on it, and you didn't even try to defend it, because you know it was complete fantasy. And then you exit this exchange with all the sincerity of a Redditor who reports the opposing viewpoint to the mental health bot...

I just don't understand why people like you feel the need to lie so much and so constantly.

Re: Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

#420

Post by throw10920 » Wed, Feb 14, 2024, 2:13 AM UTC

fargle wrote: post #361

throw10920 wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's obvious that the time and place for patents has come and gone This is a ridiculous (and incorrect) opinion being presented as fact, coupled with a lot of strawman arguments. The fact that the implementation of the patent system has been massively abused over the past few decades does in no way imply that the theory is flawed and that > just abandon the whole system. it literally helps nobody This entire commen…

[flagged]

This comment is absurd.

> it's obvious that the time and place for patents has come and gone

This, is an opinion. It is not a fact. You cannot prove it, nor does it have any grounding in reality.

Factually, your statement is an opinion, and claiming that

> you argue that my statement is a falacy using the same falacy

...is objectively false. Your complete lack of logic throughout your entire post shows that it doesn't deserve an answer, because there's nothing to answer to.