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Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

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Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#61

Post by FirmwareBurner »

troupo wrote: post #53
retskrad wrote: post #48

I believe the assertion suggesting that iMessage plays a pivotal role in the success of the iPhone and contributes significantly to Apple's business is inaccurate. The iMessage platform, in itself, does not possess an inherent quality that renders the iPhone more appealing to consumers. On the contrary, it is the iPhone's inherent appeal that enhances the attractiveness of iMessage. The prestige of the iPhone imparts…

> This is why the the iPhone is still a status symbol among the middle class and richest people in the EU wat? iPhone costs as much as an equivalent Android (and has for some time), and since you can get it with your phone subscription for a rather low monthly payment, it hasn't been a status symbol for a decade or more.

>iPhone costs as much as an equivalent Android

Only flagships, But decent Androids can be had for much less than an iPhone. Like the Samsung A54 for example. Apple doesn't have ~300 Euro phones with OLED screens in its offer.

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#62

Post by SSLy »

tremarley wrote: post #58
retskrad wrote: post #48

I believe the assertion suggesting that iMessage plays a pivotal role in the success of the iPhone and contributes significantly to Apple's business is inaccurate. The iMessage platform, in itself, does not possess an inherent quality that renders the iPhone more appealing to consumers. On the contrary, it is the iPhone's inherent appeal that enhances the attractiveness of iMessage. The prestige of the iPhone imparts…

‘iMessage plays a pivotal role in the success of the iPhone and contributes significantly to Apple's business is inaccurate.’ If you ask many iPhone users why they use an iPhone rather than an Android. They would tell you iMessage first. Many iPhone users won’t even consider an Android, only because of iMessage and no other reason.

Re-read parent's last sentence.

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#63

Post by pb7 »

pelorat wrote: post #20
crazygringo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, it's not "just a phone". iPhone integrates with the whole Apple ecosystem, so I can copy text on my phone and paste it on my Mac without thinking about it, or AirDrop a large file, or use it as a remote control for my Apple TV, and so forth. It's just as much part of the Apple ecosystem everywhere in the world, even if you don't use iMessage. You're not getting anything like that if you're using Android a…

Not a lot of people here uses a Mac either. Why spend 1500 euros on a Mac when you can buy a windows laptop for 500-700 that does everything the Mac does.

Why buy an Audi when a Volkswagen does the same thing for 50% of the cost?

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#64

Post by crazygringo »

pelorat wrote: post #20
crazygringo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, it's not "just a phone". iPhone integrates with the whole Apple ecosystem, so I can copy text on my phone and paste it on my Mac without thinking about it, or AirDrop a large file, or use it as a remote control for my Apple TV, and so forth. It's just as much part of the Apple ecosystem everywhere in the world, even if you don't use iMessage. You're not getting anything like that if you're using Android a…

Not a lot of people here uses a Mac either. Why spend 1500 euros on a Mac when you can buy a windows laptop for 500-700 that does everything the Mac does.

Because it tends to last for 2-3 times as long and still holds resale value when you finally choose to upgrade.

Because of this, entry-level Macs are often actually cheaper in the long run -- and with the M chips they're faster too. And of course generally provide a much higher-quality experience, like trackpad quality, screen quality, etc.

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#65

Post by pbmonster »

freedomben wrote: post #57
pbmonster wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> way more useful for me as a user than having "alternate app stores" It's not only alternative app stores. It's browsers with ad-blockers, youtube clients that auto-skip sponsor messages in the middle of videos and apps for $0, that cost money on the main app store - although their code is open source.

> apps for $0, that cost money on the main app store - although their code is open source Interesting, I'm generally very opposed to Apple's way, but this sounds like a real unexpected benefit (silver lining on the cloud maybe?). It enables what I've long asked for from devs, mainly that they make the source available to paying customers.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I think I mean something else. I'm talking about this phenomenon:

A software project is using an open source licence. And app gets made for Android, and because of culture or GPL, the app is open source, too. But on Google Play, the app costs money, contains ads, or there is sub-features, that you only get if you pay a (one time/monthly) fee.

But because it's trivial to sideload on Android, I can just get the app from github (or from the open source app store FDroid) and install it myself, for free. No ads, no locked content.

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#66

Post by yorwba »

cgearhart wrote: post #43
jamesrr39 wrote: post #4

No real surprise about iMessage and Bing. They are not dominant communication methods/search engines at all, at least within my social circles (in Sweden). Some useful info about who the gatekeepers are/which parts of their platforms have been designated at gatekeeping: https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/gatekeepers_en . Includes a nice diagram!

The diagram was helpful. Have you seen anything similar that summarizes what it means for services to be designated this way? As an aside, it strikes me as vaguely protectionist to see that it’s only 6 companies and none of them are European… (maybe that’s a hot take?)

It's the opposite of protectionism. European competitors for these services existed at some point, but because they lacked the advantage of a sufficiently large home market and didn't get any extra protection to make up for it, they didn't do as well.

Depending on the strength of network effects, they either quickly lost users to the biggest platform, saw the writing on the wall and took an acquisition offer instead, or continue to hold their ground within a particular niche where expanding quickly is difficult (for both foreign and local companies).

Any new European internet companies wishing to make it big at home will probably need to concentrate mainly on the US market first in order to have those same network effects work in their favor instead of against them.

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#67

Post by troupo »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #61
troupo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is why the the iPhone is still a status symbol among the middle class and richest people in the EU wat? iPhone costs as much as an equivalent Android (and has for some time), and since you can get it with your phone subscription for a rather low monthly payment, it hasn't been a status symbol for a decade or more.

>iPhone costs as much as an equivalent Android Only flagships, But decent Androids can be had for much less than an iPhone. Like the Samsung A54 for example. Apple doesn't have ~300 Euro phones with OLED screens in its offer.

Yes, but that doesn't make them "status phones for middle class people". The latest iPhone 15 can be had for 30 EUR/month even in Sweden (Sweden is very expensive) [1]. That's a single lunch for two.

[1] https://www.tre.se/handla/mobiltelefoner/apple/iphone-15

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#68

Post by troupo »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #59
retskrad wrote: post #48

I believe the assertion suggesting that iMessage plays a pivotal role in the success of the iPhone and contributes significantly to Apple's business is inaccurate. The iMessage platform, in itself, does not possess an inherent quality that renders the iPhone more appealing to consumers. On the contrary, it is the iPhone's inherent appeal that enhances the attractiveness of iMessage. The prestige of the iPhone imparts…

iMessage popularity has little to do with status and everything to do with iPhone users refusing to use other messaging apps. If you want to text an iPhone and you don’t have iMessage chances are you will be forced to use sms which is utterly trash. I’ve been unable to convince my friends to use a messaging app so if I want to text them I pretty much need an iPhone.

Strange then that iMessage didn't even qualify for DMA in EU by the number of users? ;)

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#69

Post by dopa42365 »

hwbehrens wrote: post #35
ghusto wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the U.S.A., people use iMessage by default, because they use text messaging. People don't use texts in Europe (we use WhatsApp and similar, but WhatsApp by a long margin). The reason people still use texts in the U.S.A. is up for debate, and it's something I've thought about for a long time.

I think it's a historical artifact -- by the time that iMessage launched, the US was well into the phase of free, unlimited texting, so there was no barrier to "just texting". Since there was also no barrier (in terms of costs, subscriptions, or installation friction) to using iMessage, it was a drop-in upgrade of the user experience for SMS. In contrast, I still have to pay a fee to send SMS messages to my European…

How much does the cheapest mobile plan that offers "free and unlimited" texting cost in the US? Quick look at t-mobile shows $15/month for unlimited texts.

So much for "free" :)

Re: Apple's iMessage avoids EU's Digital Markets Act regulation

#70

Post by FirmwareBurner »

troupo wrote: post #67
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>iPhone costs as much as an equivalent Android Only flagships, But decent Androids can be had for much less than an iPhone. Like the Samsung A54 for example. Apple doesn't have ~300 Euro phones with OLED screens in its offer.

Yes, but that doesn't make them "status phones for middle class people". The latest iPhone 15 can be had for 30 EUR/month even in Sweden (Sweden is very expensive) [1]. That's a single lunch for two. [1] https://www.tre.se/handla/mobiltelefoner/apple/iphone-15

Sweden also has some of the highest salaries in Europe/the world, that's why they're not a status symbol, because even a pizza delivery boy can afford an iPhone 15 Pro Max.

But they very much are a status symbol in less developed countries with lower wages: Eastern Europe, Latin America, etc. Lower and middle class people there will save for over a year just to get the latest iPhone, which is why there's a huge market there for clones.

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