Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla worker killed in fiery crash may be first 'Full Self-Driving' fatality

washingtonpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 315 posts

Re: Tesla worker killed in fiery crash may be first 'Full Self-Driving' fatality

#51

Post by robertlagrant »

KaiserPro wrote: post #32
redserk wrote: post #3

> Von Ohain and Rossiter had been drinking, and an autopsy found that von Ohain died with a blood alcohol level of 0.26 — more than three times the legal limit — a level of intoxication that would have hampered his ability to maintain control of the car, experts said. The details make this seem less of an autonomous driving issue and more of an incredibly irresponsible operation issue.

>seems less of an autonomous driving issue and more of an incredibly irresponsible operation issue. if the car is truly autonomous, then no, its failure of a life critical system if the car is not autonomous, then calling it "Full Self Driving" is a wilful misrepresentation of it's capability. To a normal person (no ignore the driver's employment history) full self drive, means that, it drives it's self, safely. You…

> To a normal person (no ignore the driver's employment history)

But in this case, which is what the previous comment is talking about, this doesn't apply.

Re: Tesla worker killed in fiery crash may be first 'Full Self-Driving' fatality

#52

Post by ra7 »

ajross wrote: post #36
LeFantome wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree with what you say. Certainly “Full Self Driving” should be illegal marketing for level 2 autonomy. That said, cars are dumb toys to give people. Certainly access to cars is dangerous for people that are going to use them while drunk. “Sense of security” or not, why were these guys in control of a vehicle? While autonomous vehicles are not ready, this event just cements the need for them in my mind. I…

> I totally agree with what you say. Certainly “Full Self Driving” should be illegal marketing for level 2 autonomy. The driver was literally a Tesla Inc. employee. Do you really think that they were fooled by marketing into believing the system was more capable than it was? No, they were just drunk and made a terrible decision. I mean, I'm tempted to just agree. Let's call it something else. Will that stop these rid…

Did you read the article?

> Von Ohain used Full Self-Driving nearly every time he got behind the wheel, Bass said, placing him among legions of Tesla boosters heeding Musk’s call to generate data and build the technology’s mastery. While Bass refused to use the feature herself — she said its unpredictability stressed her out — her husband was so confident in all it promised that he even used it with their baby in the car.

> “It was jerky, but we were like, that comes with the territory of” new technology, Bass said. “We knew the technology had to learn, and we were willing to be part of that.”

Seems like he was indeed fooled by marketing.

Re: Tesla worker killed in fiery crash may be first 'Full Self-Driving' fatality

#53

Post by dwater »

baxtr wrote: post #44
redserk wrote: post #3

> Von Ohain and Rossiter had been drinking, and an autopsy found that von Ohain died with a blood alcohol level of 0.26 — more than three times the legal limit — a level of intoxication that would have hampered his ability to maintain control of the car, experts said. The details make this seem less of an autonomous driving issue and more of an incredibly irresponsible operation issue.

I’m not sure what “0.26” exactly means, but if it’s what I interpret to be that’s about one beer for a typical male adult. It’s not nothing but it’s not a lot either.

0.26 is pretty drunk, in my opinion. A 140lb person drinking 8 shots would leave them close to blacking out unless they drank a lot, and very often.

https://www.healthline.com/health/alcohol/blood-alcohol-leve...

Re: Tesla worker killed in fiery crash may be first 'Full Self-Driving' fatality

#54

Post by fwip »

baxtr wrote: post #44
redserk wrote: post #3

> Von Ohain and Rossiter had been drinking, and an autopsy found that von Ohain died with a blood alcohol level of 0.26 — more than three times the legal limit — a level of intoxication that would have hampered his ability to maintain control of the car, experts said. The details make this seem less of an autonomous driving issue and more of an incredibly irresponsible operation issue.

I’m not sure what “0.26” exactly means, but if it’s what I interpret to be that’s about one beer for a typical male adult. It’s not nothing but it’s not a lot either.

You may be thinking of 0.026. 0.08 is the legal limit in most states. 0.26 is drunk enough that you need to worry about them choking on their own vomit.

Re: Tesla worker killed in fiery crash may be first 'Full Self-Driving' fatality

#55

Post by etempleton »

baxtr wrote: post #44
redserk wrote: post #3

> Von Ohain and Rossiter had been drinking, and an autopsy found that von Ohain died with a blood alcohol level of 0.26 — more than three times the legal limit — a level of intoxication that would have hampered his ability to maintain control of the car, experts said. The details make this seem less of an autonomous driving issue and more of an incredibly irresponsible operation issue.

I’m not sure what “0.26” exactly means, but if it’s what I interpret to be that’s about one beer for a typical male adult. It’s not nothing but it’s not a lot either.

It is Blood Alcohol Content (BAC) and 0.26% is about 8-12 drinks depending on the person's tolerance and weight. Legally drunk. The legal limit to drive in most states is .08% which is typically 2-3 drinks.

Re: Tesla worker killed in fiery crash may be first 'Full Self-Driving' fatality

#56

Post by macksd »

baxtr wrote: post #44
redserk wrote: post #3

> Von Ohain and Rossiter had been drinking, and an autopsy found that von Ohain died with a blood alcohol level of 0.26 — more than three times the legal limit — a level of intoxication that would have hampered his ability to maintain control of the car, experts said. The details make this seem less of an autonomous driving issue and more of an incredibly irresponsible operation issue.

I’m not sure what “0.26” exactly means, but if it’s what I interpret to be that’s about one beer for a typical male adult. It’s not nothing but it’s not a lot either.

It's over 3 times the legal limit for the most forgiving definition of drunk driving in Colorado.

Re: Tesla worker killed in fiery crash may be first 'Full Self-Driving' fatality

#57

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

ra7 wrote: post #8
redserk wrote: post #3

> Von Ohain and Rossiter had been drinking, and an autopsy found that von Ohain died with a blood alcohol level of 0.26 — more than three times the legal limit — a level of intoxication that would have hampered his ability to maintain control of the car, experts said. The details make this seem less of an autonomous driving issue and more of an incredibly irresponsible operation issue.

These two were idiots, but this highlights the dangers of L2 driver assistance systems (misleadingly marketed as "Full Self Driving") that requires driver attention at all times to prevent accidents. It gives you a false sense of security and there's no guarantee you'll take over in time to prevent an accident. If you give dumb toys to people, they will use it in dumb ways. This is why Waymo/Google abandoned their dr…

Totally agree. As a driver with a car with advanced "driver assistance features", I honestly don't understand how people get value out of most of these. That is, I'd rather just use a system where I know I have to be in control at all times, vs one where "You only have to be in control 1% of the time, oh and if you miss that 1%, you're dead."

For example, I recently tried using the adaptive cruise control/lane centering features on a long road trip, and it was maddening, not to mention pretty terrifying. The exits from this highway weren't well marked, so at most of the exits the car tried to stay it the middle of the rightmost driving lane and the exist lane (i.e. directly into the oncoming divider). I get that other systems may be more advanced, but I don't see the benefit of an automation level that every now and then takes on the driving characteristics of a drunk toddler.

Re: Tesla worker killed in fiery crash may be first 'Full Self-Driving' fatality

#58

Post by whaleofatw2022 »

baxtr wrote: post #44
redserk wrote: post #3

> Von Ohain and Rossiter had been drinking, and an autopsy found that von Ohain died with a blood alcohol level of 0.26 — more than three times the legal limit — a level of intoxication that would have hampered his ability to maintain control of the car, experts said. The details make this seem less of an autonomous driving issue and more of an incredibly irresponsible operation issue.

I’m not sure what “0.26” exactly means, but if it’s what I interpret to be that’s about one beer for a typical male adult. It’s not nothing but it’s not a lot either.

0.26 if a BAC, would be more like 5-10 beers, one drink typically is good for 0.02-0.04

Re: Tesla worker killed in fiery crash may be first 'Full Self-Driving' fatality

#59

Post by [deleted] »

ra7 wrote: post #52
ajross wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I totally agree with what you say. Certainly “Full Self Driving” should be illegal marketing for level 2 autonomy. The driver was literally a Tesla Inc. employee. Do you really think that they were fooled by marketing into believing the system was more capable than it was? No, they were just drunk and made a terrible decision. I mean, I'm tempted to just agree. Let's call it something else. Will that stop these rid…

Did you read the article? > Von Ohain used Full Self-Driving nearly every time he got behind the wheel, Bass said, placing him among legions of Tesla boosters heeding Musk’s call to generate data and build the technology’s mastery. While Bass refused to use the feature herself — she said its unpredictability stressed her out — her husband was so confident in all it promised that he even used it with their baby in the…

[deleted]

Re: Tesla worker killed in fiery crash may be first 'Full Self-Driving' fatality

#60

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

ajross wrote: post #36
LeFantome wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree with what you say. Certainly “Full Self Driving” should be illegal marketing for level 2 autonomy. That said, cars are dumb toys to give people. Certainly access to cars is dangerous for people that are going to use them while drunk. “Sense of security” or not, why were these guys in control of a vehicle? While autonomous vehicles are not ready, this event just cements the need for them in my mind. I…

> I totally agree with what you say. Certainly “Full Self Driving” should be illegal marketing for level 2 autonomy. The driver was literally a Tesla Inc. employee. Do you really think that they were fooled by marketing into believing the system was more capable than it was? No, they were just drunk and made a terrible decision. I mean, I'm tempted to just agree. Let's call it something else. Will that stop these rid…

I'm confused by the question. If anything I think it's more likely that a Tesla employee could be tricked. Other companies like Waymo have cars that literally drive themselves, and Tesla routinely has demos which purport to show the same functionality. It doesn't sound ridiculous at all that an employee might see lots of videos like [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ez0A9t9BSVg], where a Tesla car drives itself, and conclude that their Tesla car with "Self Driving" can drive itself.
Post reply on HN