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Tesla worker killed in fiery crash may be first 'Full Self-Driving' fatality

washingtonpost.com

11–20 of 315 posts

Re: Tesla worker killed in fiery crash may be first 'Full Self-Driving' fatality

#11
> In 2022, Tesla recalled more than 50,000 vehicles amid concerns that Full Self-Driving caused the car to roll through stop signs without coming to a full halt.

Not exactly relevant, but I remember this particular instance - the slow rolling through stop signs was an intentional feature to mimic human behaviour (and avoid surprising other drivers) but was deemed illegal because it goes against a strict interpretation of the law. Another tiny example of why self-driving is so hard.

Re: Tesla worker killed in fiery crash may be first 'Full Self-Driving' fatality

#12
post #8
post #3

> Von Ohain and Rossiter had been drinking, and an autopsy found that von Ohain died with a blood alcohol level of 0.26 — more than three times the legal limit — a level of intoxication that would have hampered his ability to maintain control of the car, experts said. The details make this seem less of an autonomous driving issue and more of an incredibly irresponsible operation issue.

These two were idiots, but this highlights the dangers of L2 driver assistance systems (misleadingly marketed as "Full Self Driving") that requires driver attention at all times to prevent accidents. It gives you a false sense of security and there's no guarantee you'll take over in time to prevent an accident. If you give dumb toys to people, they will use it in dumb ways. This is why Waymo/Google abandoned their dr…

It's not just Self Driving but Full Self Driving! Because today, self driving means not actually self driving at all.

Re: Tesla worker killed in fiery crash may be first 'Full Self-Driving' fatality

#13
So there's an interesting legal question here.

If someone's drunk (i.e diminished reasoning) and steps into the car expecting that a feature named "full self driving" will safely drive them home, how is responsibility divided between the person who got drunk and the entity who created and named the "full self driving" feature?

I don't think even a reasonable person could consistently conclude that "full self driving" isn't actually full self driving.

Re: Tesla worker killed in fiery crash may be first 'Full Self-Driving' fatality

#14
post #10
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These two were idiots, but this highlights the dangers of L2 driver assistance systems (misleadingly marketed as "Full Self Driving") that requires driver attention at all times to prevent accidents. It gives you a false sense of security and there's no guarantee you'll take over in time to prevent an accident. If you give dumb toys to people, they will use it in dumb ways. This is why Waymo/Google abandoned their dr…

Sorry but everything after "the driver who's responsible for their decisions was drunk" is moot. But otherwise, yes, your statement otherwise about giving "toys" to "dumb" people stands no matter the technology. And knives can be used to cut steak or stab people.

You could be perfectly sober and still not be able to intervene in time to prevent a crash. Systems like this encourage inattention, but still expect drivers to turn on attention in a fraction of a second. That's the entire point. So no, it's not moot.

Re: Tesla worker killed in fiery crash may be first 'Full Self-Driving' fatality

#15
post #3

> Von Ohain and Rossiter had been drinking, and an autopsy found that von Ohain died with a blood alcohol level of 0.26 — more than three times the legal limit — a level of intoxication that would have hampered his ability to maintain control of the car, experts said. The details make this seem less of an autonomous driving issue and more of an incredibly irresponsible operation issue.

[flagged]

Yeah. But also maybe don't call it "Full Self Driving"

Re: Tesla worker killed in fiery crash may be first 'Full Self-Driving' fatality

#16
post #3

> Von Ohain and Rossiter had been drinking, and an autopsy found that von Ohain died with a blood alcohol level of 0.26 — more than three times the legal limit — a level of intoxication that would have hampered his ability to maintain control of the car, experts said. The details make this seem less of an autonomous driving issue and more of an incredibly irresponsible operation issue.

[flagged]

Crazy that FSD is legal.

Re: Tesla worker killed in fiery crash may be first 'Full Self-Driving' fatality

#17
> It was jerky, but we were like, that comes with the territory of” new technology, Bass said. “We knew the technology had to learn, and we were willing to be part of that.”

-> we were willing to make anyone on the road part of that without asking them

Re: Tesla worker killed in fiery crash may be first 'Full Self-Driving' fatality

#18
post #3

> Von Ohain and Rossiter had been drinking, and an autopsy found that von Ohain died with a blood alcohol level of 0.26 — more than three times the legal limit — a level of intoxication that would have hampered his ability to maintain control of the car, experts said. The details make this seem less of an autonomous driving issue and more of an incredibly irresponsible operation issue.

Someone should never drink and drive. Never!

Yet, I believe that even at 0.26 blood alcohol content he had a better chance at living if driving himself.

Re: Tesla worker killed in fiery crash may be first 'Full Self-Driving' fatality

#19
post #6

As someone who works in the autonomous driving space, it is absolutely mind boggling to me how much blind faith Tesla fans put into FSD. When you compare it to any true L4 system it’s not even close and very unlikely to get close any time soon.

As a robotics person outside this space, it's not amazing that the shift to L4 as a goal has not been clearly grok'd by the public.

After years of rhetoric, most people still believe that cars will be fully autonomous because they just don't understand the limitations.

It's also quite amazing to me we, the so called smart ones, ever believed level 5 was happening but those were the good old days, huh.

Re: Tesla worker killed in fiery crash may be first 'Full Self-Driving' fatality

#20
post #6

As someone who works in the autonomous driving space, it is absolutely mind boggling to me how much blind faith Tesla fans put into FSD. When you compare it to any true L4 system it’s not even close and very unlikely to get close any time soon.

FSD is a Level 2 system and not autonomous as stated by Tesla in legal filings. So yes there is a huge difference between a real self-driving system and whatever the hell Tesla is selling.
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