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I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

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Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#361

Post by nsxwolf »

lmm wrote: post #350
NickC25 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It most certainly IS possible. That's the whole point of resumes and LinkedIn...especially in technical fields. You self-select for the hiring criteria you're looking for. You then speak to the candidate to understand a bit more about their experience as it relates to the job you're seeking a candidate for. That's why it often makes sense for such roles, for technical people to interview other technical people. "Oh,…

Aside from the fact that you'll eliminate a lot of good people, how does that let you screen out people who can't do anything but are decent bullshitters? In a 10-15 minute chat you might catch them contradicting themselves or say something you're lucky enough to remember is wrong (if you're lucky enough to know one of the things they claim experience with in detail), but that's not going to be reliable (and if you e…

I don’t think there’s really that many people who can successfully bullshit about being experienced and skilled technologists.

There’s something lacking with your interviewing skills if you can’t detect them in a conversation.

If on the off chance you do get some sociopath that somehow escapes all efforts of detection, well, it’s easy to fire people, in the US anyway.

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#362

Post by johnnyanmac »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #193
billy99k wrote: post #2

I once had a SW interview with a job that had a 2-hour long personality test. No tech questions. Just random questions to test my personality. It started out simple, like 'what was the last book you read' to more in-depth situations that had nothing to do with the job. The manager interviewing me (who admit he basically just started managing a month prior) told me he just read a 'great book on management' and wanted…

Personality tests are stupid but I don't know if I'd be willing to join a company that didn't do any-kind of whiteboarding/live coding exercise. I've interviewed way too many people who can't write a for loop. Fizzbuzz is supposed to be a joke not something people legitimately fail but it happens all the time.

It's still such a weird contrast where I hear of talented, very experienced engineers who will still be ghosted by 90% of jobs, but then there's also experiences like this.

Like, how is this sub-fizzbuzz programmer getting interviews but someone with 10+ years experience gets trapped in the HR filter?

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#363

Post by johnnyanmac »

kemayo wrote: post #312
yvan-eht-nioj wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, someone might also have a sense of karmic justice, whereby $0.02 is the same as $200 in the ethical context of returning a lost object to its owner. The manager sounds like they'd be happy to steal your wages, as long as it was "only a small amount". You dodged a bullet there.

I mean, from the perspective of the manager, you really don't want an employee who's going to run out of the store to return an amount of money that won't matter to the customer. One can understand a peculiar value system, and also think that the conclusions it reaches are bad for your situation. (See also: "it's okay to take money from the cash register if I need it".) I also think that going from that question to t…

I mean, that's why the tests are BS. The real answer for 2 cents is maybe a quick "sir your change" but otherwise nothing. But some HR filters expect you to brown nose and act like you'll move heaven and earth to give maximum QoL to a McDonandls customer taking To-Go.

>Is it wage theft if they underpay me by $0.02? Yes. Does it really matter? Not to me.

well: being pedantic, 2 cents an hour done constantly adds up to $40 a year. If we're talking minimum wage, every dollar counts.

That's part of the issue, a lot of wage theft happens to those who need it the most. But they also tend to be the most exploitable.

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#364

Post by johnnyanmac »

strken wrote: post #301
Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not clever honest people are taken advantage of Not clever dishonest people can do ok sometimes Clever honest people can be moderately successful, but can always be out-maneuvered by the clever dishonest people, thereby limiting how high they can climb, Clever dishonest people rule the world.

Compulsively dishonest people don't rule the world at all. If you can't resist stealing petty cash from the Burger King till then you'll eventually be found out and slapped down. 99% honest people rule the world because of the sneaky 1% of cases where they cheat and make it count.

>the sneaky 1% of cases where they cheat and make it count.

I'd count that under "clever but dishonest". I do agree most people aren't clever, but enough are.

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#365

Post by johnnyanmac »

glitchc wrote: post #195
Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not clever honest people are taken advantage of Not clever dishonest people can do ok sometimes Clever honest people can be moderately successful, but can always be out-maneuvered by the clever dishonest people, thereby limiting how high they can climb, Clever dishonest people rule the world.

So true. How does one become dishonest?

Empathy. Remove it. Don't necessarily steal willy nilly, but see people as pawns on a board to get you to the next stage of the game. You're not concerned with doing a good job, you're concerned with learning the players; their personality, their weaknesses, the power structure, etc.

Your goal is to move up the ladder and move quick. Get friendly with boss, the hold it over them. then get to the next step. maybe you need to pretend to fit in, maybe lie about qualifications. That's part of the board. Get powerful people to like you, get powerful tools and resources, and keep moving up.

Many stop around middle management since you start to need more money to push further, but it's a similar game as you go farther up, you just end up fighting against more players that may or may not be cleverer than yourself (and likely much more dishonest).

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#366

Post by datavirtue »

nerdbert wrote: post #319
ipsento606 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personality tests can disclose a lot of personal information In my experience the only thing personality tests disclose is how good the testee is at guessing which answers will be viewed most favorably

I assumed that's the point - can you see things like a "normal" person does?

This guy gets it.

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#367

Post by throwaway2037 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #279
frfl wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine the tens of thousands of dollars saved if you had a 15 minute (okay 15 is a bit short unless someone vouches for you or you're a well known open source contributor etc, maybe 1 hour or 1.5 hour, hell even 2 hour) technical conversation and the other engineer is like, yeah this person's worth bringing onboard. Might not work in all cases, but really, if you're trying to sniff out a pretender vs someone who can…

> I had a interview in 2021 where I had to do a 1.5 hour timed exercise, that apparently isn't sufficient, so their interview pipeline has 3x1hour additional live coding sessions with engineers. Over 4 hours of coding just to prove I can write code up to their standards. Then another 3+ hours of behavioral interviews, meeting the team. Multiply that by the ~5 candidates you interview per position multiplied by each p…

> Assume 30k of hiring costs related to filling any new position

That is MUCH too low. Most recruiters are paid 20-30% of first year annual salary as a placement fee.

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#368

Post by nitwit005 »

nerdbert wrote: post #319
ipsento606 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personality tests can disclose a lot of personal information In my experience the only thing personality tests disclose is how good the testee is at guessing which answers will be viewed most favorably

I assumed that's the point - can you see things like a "normal" person does?

These tests usually don't have a "normal" outcome, as they are intended to group people into categories.

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#369

Post by namlem »

dylan604 wrote: post #170
awo34oaw4u wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got asked "what was the last book you read" in a SW startup interview once. I told them and then the interviewers started arguing amongst themselves about whether or not they liked the book, based on what I had told them about it, instead of asking me what I thought about it and what I learned from it. That was one of about thirty red flags. I left without completing the interview.

I had a high school literature teacher that asked me what I thought about the assigned reading, and then told I was wrong. After arguing that the question was not "what did it mean" vs what I thought. I think think whatever the hell I want to think. This was pretty much the death knell of my desire to participate in literature, and freed me up to spend my time in math/sciences. yes, it was just an excuse for somethin…

You can just read literature. Academic literary analysis has always been a grift imo. Just completely useless nonsense. Doesn't mean that literature isn't enjoyable.

I recently read a book that would count as literary fiction (as opposed to genre fiction) for the first time in over a decade and I enjoyed it quite a lot.

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#370

Post by lmm »

yvan-eht-nioj wrote: post #321
kemayo wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, from the perspective of the manager, you really don't want an employee who's going to run out of the store to return an amount of money that won't matter to the customer. One can understand a peculiar value system, and also think that the conclusions it reaches are bad for your situation. (See also: "it's okay to take money from the cash register if I need it".) I also think that going from that question to t…

I suppose it depends if you believe in principle over pragmatism. Personally, for me the amount is irrelevant; action and intent is what matters, so in some contexts $0.02 would absolutely matter to me.

If getting on with your job when a customer has left $0.02 on the counter would be such a severe violation of your principles, you're likely unsuitable for jobs.
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