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I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

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Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#351

Post by lmm »

Alupis wrote: post #337
Macha wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US the two are intertwined because historical discrimination produced reduced chances for black people to make it into the middle and upper class, and this is a generational effect. Consequentially things that discriminate against the working class will also discriminate against historically discriminated minorities.

I don't think there is a way you can assert hiring practices that discern based on economic status are de facto racist in the modern US. That seems to be quite a stretch. In fact, many of the practices at large organizations are designed expressly to favor historically discriminated populations - and in other cases historically discriminated populations don't need an artificial advantage and have outpaced other popul…

> I don't think there is a way you can assert hiring practices that discern based on economic status are de facto racist in the modern US. That seems to be quite a stretch.

It meets the "disparate impact" criterion, which is the legal bar for racism.

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#352

Post by dudul »

strictnein wrote: post #182
ooterness wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re in a desert walking along in the sand when all of the sudden you look down, and you see a tortoise, it’s crawling toward you. You reach down, you flip the tortoise over on its back. The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over, but it can’t, not without your help. But you’re not helping. Why is that?

Not sure why, but this scenario and question makes me anxious. Maybe that's the point?

Empathy test from Blade Runner.

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#353

Post by Rapzid »

squirrel6 wrote: post #221

These kinds of things that are basically substitutes for an IQ test (versus tests that purport to measure a specific type of specific technical aptitude) should be banned for employment screening, IMO. Where do we draw the line?

The dirty little secret nobody wants talk about is pretty much all of IT hiring, and certainly FANG, is filtering for IQ or other intrinsic character traits lol.

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#354

Post by rendaw »

kemayo wrote: post #312
yvan-eht-nioj wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, someone might also have a sense of karmic justice, whereby $0.02 is the same as $200 in the ethical context of returning a lost object to its owner. The manager sounds like they'd be happy to steal your wages, as long as it was "only a small amount". You dodged a bullet there.

I mean, from the perspective of the manager, you really don't want an employee who's going to run out of the store to return an amount of money that won't matter to the customer. One can understand a peculiar value system, and also think that the conclusions it reaches are bad for your situation. (See also: "it's okay to take money from the cash register if I need it".) I also think that going from that question to t…

I'm guessing the only choices were "run after them" and "steal it"

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#355

Post by bglazer »

dmix wrote: post #342
usrusr wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bad experience with too much undetected nepotism might be a reason they decided to start looking for slightly more objective procedures. When those then still get gamed, perhaps even harder, that turns into a slippery slope and in the end you get those systems where only those who memorize the entire secret dance routine ever get a position.

Or maybe it's like OP said, the HR guy read a book on hiring and now has a 2hr test because he thinks it will help. While the dev team is struggling to hire good people. The thing I dislike, but not surprised about, is how so many dev teams will engage in this circus. The dev management guy is definitely okaying the 5th toy test thing. Which can probably be summarized by the stereotype of which devs seek management,…

Having worked at FedEx, I can say that there’s actually a decent amount of interesting work to be done.

First, the website gets a ton of traffic. Granted, it’s not google scale but it’s still significant enough to be interesting.

The more interesting bits are behind the scenes. The operations research challenges are enormous, routing millions of packages across thousands of trucks and airplanes. The sorting hubs are highly automated and frankly terrifying in their scale and speed.

I worked in fraud detection and infosec, and I can’t say much detailed about that. Suffice it to say that stealing packages is a sufficiently good motivation for criminals to develop some interesting strategies.

All that to say that it’s deeply disappointing that fedex is using dumb shit like this to screen talent.

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#356

Post by johnnyanmac »

PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #340
hinkley wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of being a grownup is coming around to the fact that if someone you just met clearly doesn't trust you, that's 95% about their issues, not yours. Then it becomes a question not of whether you're 'worthy' of a job with these people, but whether you really want to walk into a place that is telegraphing this much paranoia. I don't know how to gracefully bow out of the middle of an interview and I wish I did. What I…

> Part of being a grownup is coming around to the fact that if someone you just met clearly doesn't trust you, that's 95% about their issues, not yours. Trust is earned, not given. part of the reason you feel as if you can trust them is because you don't have to trust them _fully_. You're protected by the system, life circumstances, etc. Put another way, it's easy for me to trust that someone I don't know will pay ba…

Trust may be earned, but respect should be a default. These tests definitely don't respect you nor the company's time and values. But I guess someone had to feel useful (emphasis on "feel").

> I say this just to say be careful of dismissing people outright.

I'll give them the minimum amount of respect, but if I have to walk on eggshells just to do every day work communication, I'm going to trust them very little. I'm glad you worked it out, but most of the time you will never know their story (and you'd be cast as the bad guy if you pried to find it).

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#357

Post by johnnyanmac »

zooq_ai wrote: post #124
intelVISA wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every job/client I've acquired has been a 10-15min informal chat with a stakeholder and a technical peer, and then an offer. I don't really see the value in going through hiring gauntlets and opt out of any process that looks like it might waste time like that.

Employement is not the same as contracting job

contracting gigs these days aren't even like that these days. Much less risk but it goes through the exact same process. I don't get it.

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#358

Post by johnnyanmac »

recursive wrote: post #42
CogitoCogito wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Weeding out poor candidates is not possible with 10-15 minutes informal chats. You do realize you’re replying to a comment showing it _is_ possible right?

I don't realize that. We know that there was a short chat, and that it resulted in filling a position. We don't know whether it's an effective way to filter out poor candidates. Have you done it? What's your success rate?

Different scales different approaches. You don't need to throw a distrubuted server to sort 100 objects.

I'm sure for a small and even medium sized company looking for a technical role it's fine to look at resumes, have a quick chat, and get them in. Not as safe to use when sorting through thousands of candidates at a FAANG.

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#359

Post by johnnyanmac »

nomel wrote: post #264
UncleOxidant wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I ended up choosing the job that had no whiteboard interview or personality test. It was just a simple conversation with the tech lead about my previous experience and if I had the experience to work on their current system I miss interviews like this. We need to compile a list of companies that still do this. In fact, getting on that list could really help a company's recruiting efforts - which in turn could influ…

I think they're gone because, within the limited time of an interview, it's hard to prove competence with chatting, for yourself, and especially in a way that can be communicated to others in the panel. Most places I've worked, firing is a bad bad thing. It means everyone involved with the hire failed, and morale is hurt by everyone that sees the person let go. When I first started interviewing, this was the method I…

>Getting to a point where this is obvious can take a significant portion of a 45 minute interview

I mean, without the project being some huge OS thing it's hard to prove contribution it in any amount of time. I don't mind some simple system design questions to sus that out (and maybe relate it to a work experience to test some validity), but instead it turns into 4 rounds of Leetcode. A waste of time and STILL not making it obvious.

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