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Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

theguardian.com

401–410 of 457 posts

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Universities run on people like me who are of the "academic mindset", who can and will do things like teaching because we love it as a vocation even though the salary is a quarter or fifth of what is on offer privately. Everything runs like this. Jobs people want will pay less than jobs people don't want.

Does that mean everyone wants to be a waiter and nobody wants to be a CEO?

> Does that mean everyone wants to be a waiter and nobody wants to be a CEO?

You've committed the fallacy of the single cause. A reason doesn't mean the reason for lower salaries.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A cartel sets prices, and is one of the many ways markets are unfree. That's true, but cartels can't enforce this. New or external firms can compete with the cartel. If a cartel reduces production or raises prices then it incentivizes competitors to meet the market demand with lower prices. The only way the cartel can exclude new firms is by controlling the entirety of some resource or enforcing the cartel usually…

In Ontario, the "dairy cartel" invaded the big name convenience stores and groceries and forcibly replaced product on the shelf with their own without repercussion

I wonder what factors prevented competition with the "dairy cartel" in Ontario as would happen in a free market. Most likely there are restrictions on what products can be sold to willing customers that are costly for smaller firms to comply with. There may also be subsidies that have criteria that entrenched firms benefit from, but impose additional restrictions on how new firms can function.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voters decide things too. But that's not just a hot-button issue for any voter I've ever met. Why not? It actually wouldn't be too hard to implement without wage theft in either direction -- mandate some kind of escrow functionality by law, built into direct deposit. In other words, if you work daily, the money is deposited in "escrow mode" at the start of your shift, and you can verify it in your banking app. But it…

> " If your boss doesn't approve that you completed the day's work when you actually did, the money stays in escrow until it gets settled by a court. " Boss: "Your court hearing will be in 2-6 months, you'll need to take time off work to go to court and I'll get the company lawyer to argue our side so you'll need to pay for a lawyer to argue your side. You'll need to risk losing and being lumbered with court costs on…

That's a separate issue, which is trying to skimp on overtime on an individual basis.

My point is regarding companies that simply don't pay for whole weeks' or months' worth of payroll, for whole teams of people, to try to get out of paying wages entirely. Which happens for businesses that hire people for single projects and then let them go (like construction), or businesses that wind up going out of business but where the owner can at least lose less money (common in restaurants, cafes).

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think the construction industry is illegal. Wait till you hear about academia!! :) This is the life today for zero-hours, at-will employment in the university sector. As a visiting professor I've had universities ask me to deliver a semester course a year in advance, and call the week before to say they're not running it. At the very minimum a 12 week course takes 40 hours of preparation even if you're just refre…

Universities, unlike building firms, have actual assets and are unlikely to claim bankruptcy. That means you could easily take the above issues to small claims court as long as you had them in writing (and remember, even a agreement to pay you via email usually suffices - no formal documents or signatures required)

They have lawyers and you don't so expect this to be dragged out and expensive for you and your rewards, if successful, to not even cover the initial losses fully, much less the time and money of the suit. The big companies will always win. Better off suing the small construction company or building firm, as you're far more likely to be on even(er) ground with them.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

err.. no, free markets are state constructions. By default, an unregulated market becomes non-free essentially immediately, as cartels form (indeed, as cartels of cartels form, hence states ). As Hobbes observed, in the state of nature there is no motivation to remain as an individual, so you form groups in order for self-protection. In an "anarchical market" you end up with incredible levels of monopolisation (etc.)…

Cartels are a feature of free markets. I would argue that it's good for the state to take some sort of interest in regulating them, one of several ways that I'm not a free-market fundamentalist. But arguing that the formation of cartels makes a market non-free is backward. Cartels emerge through free association in trade. Regulating them might make for a more functional market, a more efficient market (or it might no…

If a cartel sets the price, rather than supply and demand, is it really a free market? Of course the answer is no and that's obvious to anyone giving it any thought at all.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not only would they fire you but they'd call up all their industry buddies and you'd basically be on every other restaurants no-hire list. So like a much-dreaded union for employers except it’s underhanded and illegal.

The idea of industry-wide "no-hire lists" is a bogeyman that bad employers use to control young employees who don't yet know any better. At worst, you won't get a positive recommendation from an employer like this if somebody calls and asks. The idea that employers are busy maintaining "no-hire lists" and collecting names from all of their industry peers doesn't hold up, at least not outside of maybe weird small-town…

Not true. I lived through the no-poaching agreements in Silicon Valley which is close and if that's not close enough for you, before that I worked in market research in Austin and we absolutely shared a no-hire list, and not just with our other branches, but among competing call centers.

There were two other companies we regularly swapped low-skill call center workers with and the management teams of all three, I was on one, shared a list of disruptive and dangerous workers we'd had to fire and discouraged any of the three firms to hire. On our end, the list was in Lotus Notes and it was someone's job to make sure it integrated updates from the other call centers.

That was the late 90s and the list sharing started in the late 80s before I got there but it was one of the thing you learned about when you got promoted to management, check the list before the interview!

I started out on the phones and had many friends still on the floor when I got promoted, so learning about the list was a little bit disturbing, but the names I recognized on it from my time in our call center, had been escorted out by the police or carried out by EMTs.

That firm was wild. We literally took on 20 guys from the child sexual abuse convict halfway house to work the phones. Only half made the cut after the trial period and only three of them stayed on more than a few months, and those three were quite good, one making the "CEO" team which was the highly capable group that could hold a CEO on the phone for a 45 minute interview about, for example, printers and multi-function devices conducted on behalf of Dell Computers to see if they were making any headway eating into HP printer sales or whatever.

My point is that back in the '90s lists you say don't exist absolutely did. I not only knew of one, I used it, added to it, and I have every confidence that two other companies employing the same kind of people were using it as well.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of industry-wide "no-hire lists" is a bogeyman that bad employers use to control young employees who don't yet know any better. At worst, you won't get a positive recommendation from an employer like this if somebody calls and asks. The idea that employers are busy maintaining "no-hire lists" and collecting names from all of their industry peers doesn't hold up, at least not outside of maybe weird small-town…

Can confirm. There's no "no-hire lists" in the heavy construction, restaurant, and IT companies that I've seen. However, in a small town, business owners may warn each other, and in a small bubble of companies, they may talk to each other. And if you need a reference, better pick a fellow employee. Other than that, ignore the boogeyman!

Austin TX was not a small town in the 90s and my company and two others who used the same kind of employees (call center workers) that were in slightly different industries (surveys, sales, political) regularly shared a list of workers we'd fired and we believed should not be hired.

For my part, the fired workers that were added to the list had been escorted out by police or wheeled out by EMTs after causing property damage and physical harm to other employees. I didn't think much about it at the time. I was young and foolish and happy to have been promoted off the call center floor into management.

I think the list had started a decade earlier for sharing across sister companies. My local company had been acquired by a larger foreign company which had several US subsidiaries in similar businesses, one of which was just the other side of the river from us. I think they first shared the list amongst themselves which despite them being different companies, is almost "internal", but eventually they started sharing it with another Austin business with a large call center over on Mopac that shared a bunch of workers across different shifts. They'd work for us during the day calling businesses and work theirs at night calling residential. Then a third company joined and I wouldn't be surprised if they shared it even more broadly after I left, but by then I suspect most of the phone workers in Austin were covered at that point.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#409
post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CEOs of large companies generally don't go back down the food chain because they don't need to. They retire/semi-retire (e.g. get a board seat or some other advisor type of position) instead.

The strongest factor in personal employment decisions is what we "need to". Of course a CEO doesn't need to continue pulling their weight when they have piles of cash to retire on.

> The strongest factor in personal employment decisions is what we "need to".

Possibly, but once that's satisfied, or even the satisfaction of that is well in the rear view mirror, other things become important. E.g. company mission; prestige; moving in the right circles; pushing into politics.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This comes up every time and it's just as stupid every time. I'm sorry you went through a terrible experience being a musician. That doesn't justify other people going through terrible experiences.

I had a great experience as a musician, I made a decent living doing it. I didn't work too many hard or dirty jobs, just boring low skill jobs because I needed the flexibility.

Most IT/office jobs are comparatively gravy any way you slice it.

I'm just saying I have something to compare to rather than a lot of people here who probably interned at Google or MS and went off to make huge cash immediately.

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