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I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

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Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#271

Post by Aeolun »

frfl wrote: post #28
georgel wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been my experience as well. The more hoops a company made me jump through the less they were offering to begin with, and the culture was not great. My last gig was great in that aspect. My client found my LinkedIn, we had a quick 15 minute call to discuss the project and I was working for them the next day.

Imagine the tens of thousands of dollars saved if you had a 15 minute (okay 15 is a bit short unless someone vouches for you or you're a well known open source contributor etc, maybe 1 hour or 1.5 hour, hell even 2 hour) technical conversation and the other engineer is like, yeah this person's worth bringing onboard. Might not work in all cases, but really, if you're trying to sniff out a pretender vs someone who can…

I keep saying this every time the topic comes up, but I think I can get a fairly decent idea of how well someone will perform in an hour of talking.

Just gouging their enthusiasm and knowledge of topics they may not necessarily need to be aware of for the job.

At least it seems to bear out so far, and if not, then it means all candidates are just decent and it doesn’t matter whom we hire.

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#273

Post by saagarjha »

glitchc wrote: post #195
Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not clever honest people are taken advantage of Not clever dishonest people can do ok sometimes Clever honest people can be moderately successful, but can always be out-maneuvered by the clever dishonest people, thereby limiting how high they can climb, Clever dishonest people rule the world.

So true. How does one become dishonest?

I can tell you how.

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#274

Post by Aeolun »

dylan604 wrote: post #268
justinclift wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A teacher having anything to do with a student's " bedside " is liable to be arrested yeah?

jeebus christo you're either denser than lead or a really bad comedian yeah?

That was probably not very politically correct, but I laughed when reading that.

I think a possible alternative is they’re not a native/regular speaker?

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#275

Post by Exoristos »

Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #66
bluefirebrand wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that what you are getting is people who are both decently clever and fairly dishonest. Which is an awful combination to select for, imo

Not clever honest people are taken advantage of Not clever dishonest people can do ok sometimes Clever honest people can be moderately successful, but can always be out-maneuvered by the clever dishonest people, thereby limiting how high they can climb, Clever dishonest people rule the world.

A small percentage of "clever dishonest people" rule the world. Unless one hits the stratosphere quickly there will be a downfall, because time is the enemy of major dishonesty. In other words, most of the world-ruling class are dishonest, but most dishonest people (even clever ones) are not world rulers.

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#276

Post by saagarjha »

vundercind wrote: post #147
bluefirebrand wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Answering in a way that is not consistent with what you truly feel or believe is dishonest. I don't think it's an amoral dishonesty, as you say, you've been forced to play this dumb game. There are many cases where being untruthful is not morally wrong Thank you for this reply, I couldn't have said it better. It's important that people realize 1) Representing yourself falsely is dishonest 2) Dishonesty isn't an esp…

It took me a while to get that interviewers aren’t really looking for honesty when they ask stuff like “why do you want to work here?” I mean maybe they are, but they’re gonna be very unhappy with the most-honest answer from 95+% of candidates for the vast majority of employers and jobs. So of course, you’re supposed to be… quite a bit less honest. And I guess maybe there’s some value in filtering out people who don’…

What they're usually asking for is "why do you want to work here instead of somewhere else, if they offered you a similar position".

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#277

Post by Macha »

Alupis wrote: post #230
Macha wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having seen Canonical's personality test, while it's impossible to verify without their marking methodology, it feels explicitly classist (which in the US probably means it produces racist outcomes too)

> it feels explicitly classist (which in the US probably means it produces racist outcomes too) Please elaborate...

Way too much emphasis on if you went to the "right" high school or college for something given to people with ten year's experience, interest in those that took a hyper competitive view to niche hobbies in their high school years, why they picked the third level institution they did (economic necessity did not seem likely to be an acceptable answer).

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#278

Post by stirfish »

Alupis wrote: post #241
shermantanktop wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll probably get better answers to questions about polo, golf, opera, and croquet on Martha's Vineyard than you will in South Compton.

There are wealthy and poor people all across the country that do or do not participate or relate to any of those named things. You have identified a very specific type of economic class, which has nothing to do with "race" and/or ethnicity. I also doubt Canonical is only seeking people who "summer" in Martha's Vineyard, regardless of their skin color.

>You have identified a very specific type of economic class, which has nothing to do with "race" and/or ethnicity

Please elaborate...

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#279

Post by mschuster91 »

frfl wrote: post #28
georgel wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been my experience as well. The more hoops a company made me jump through the less they were offering to begin with, and the culture was not great. My last gig was great in that aspect. My client found my LinkedIn, we had a quick 15 minute call to discuss the project and I was working for them the next day.

Imagine the tens of thousands of dollars saved if you had a 15 minute (okay 15 is a bit short unless someone vouches for you or you're a well known open source contributor etc, maybe 1 hour or 1.5 hour, hell even 2 hour) technical conversation and the other engineer is like, yeah this person's worth bringing onboard. Might not work in all cases, but really, if you're trying to sniff out a pretender vs someone who can…

> I had a interview in 2021 where I had to do a 1.5 hour timed exercise, that apparently isn't sufficient, so their interview pipeline has 3x1hour additional live coding sessions with engineers. Over 4 hours of coding just to prove I can write code up to their standards. Then another 3+ hours of behavioral interviews, meeting the team. Multiply that by the ~5 candidates you interview per position multiplied by each position you hire for in a given year.

... and then, after wasting thousands of dollars per candidate, many companies opt for RTO policies to "trim fat". Yeah, makes sense if you're an accountant / stock market analyst only focusing on capex vs opex and long-term liabilities (which employment contracts are everywhere but in the US with at-will), but from a holistic viewpoint it's all an utter waste.

Assume 30k of hiring costs related to filling any new position (and that's on the lower end), it makes zero sense to not grant existing employees even 2 grands a year in wage increase... but here we are. Financial games have ruined everything.

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#280

Post by vundercind »

glitchc wrote: post #195
Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not clever honest people are taken advantage of Not clever dishonest people can do ok sometimes Clever honest people can be moderately successful, but can always be out-maneuvered by the clever dishonest people, thereby limiting how high they can climb, Clever dishonest people rule the world.

So true. How does one become dishonest?

Compartmentalizing by treating business as a “game” that honest people are simply playing poorly seems to be a place many start, if they want to be able to continue to see themselves as honest.

Once it’s just a game, and deception is part of it… why, you’re not even behaving unethically!

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