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I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

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Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#261

Post by usrusr »

dmix wrote: post #251
billy99k wrote: post #2

I once had a SW interview with a job that had a 2-hour long personality test. No tech questions. Just random questions to test my personality. It started out simple, like 'what was the last book you read' to more in-depth situations that had nothing to do with the job. The manager interviewing me (who admit he basically just started managing a month prior) told me he just read a 'great book on management' and wanted…

> but the second was going to be a 5-hour remote codeshare/whiteboard interview with the team. I've never understood why large companies do such long gruelling interviews. I always assumed it's because big companies get lots of low quality applicants at high volume but thats just a huge investment for both sides. From my limited experience hiring you can spot the talented ones pretty quickly and the real test comes a…

Bad experience with too much undetected nepotism might be a reason they decided to start looking for slightly more objective procedures. When those then still get gamed, perhaps even harder, that turns into a slippery slope and in the end you get those systems where only those who memorize the entire secret dance routine ever get a position.

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#262

Post by aidenn0 »

FigurativeVoid wrote: post #186

FedEx has always been really weird for me. When I was first getting into tech, I interviewed at FedEx. The first interview went really well, but I totally bombed the second interview--some remote coding challenge. After my poor performance, I didn't really pursue the position further because I knew I hadn't done well. You win some, you lose some. 8 months later I received an email with an offer letter.

> 8 months later I received an email with an offer letter.

This has happened to me at other companies too, and it boggles my mind. In sending out offers so late, you are literally filtering for people who either:

1. Weren't able to get a different job in 8 months

2. Will job hop in under 8 months.

Granted one of the two times this happened to me, the offer was for a $30k one year contract, so they were kind of scraping the bottom of the barrel anyways there.

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#263

Post by everybodyknows »

ipsento606 wrote: post #189
doublebind wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two years ago, I had a similar experience with Chainlink. I underwent hours of interviews and completed an extensive work assignment, only to be offered the job _after a personality test_. Simultaneously, I interviewed at a startup. There, I spent about an hour discussing my experience and providing feedback on their current system with the person who would become my manager. I chose the startup, and it has been the…

> Personality tests can disclose a lot of personal information In my experience the only thing personality tests disclose is how good the testee is at guessing which answers will be viewed most favorably

When a measure becomes a target ...

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#264

Post by nomel »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #83
billy99k wrote: post #2

I once had a SW interview with a job that had a 2-hour long personality test. No tech questions. Just random questions to test my personality. It started out simple, like 'what was the last book you read' to more in-depth situations that had nothing to do with the job. The manager interviewing me (who admit he basically just started managing a month prior) told me he just read a 'great book on management' and wanted…

> I ended up choosing the job that had no whiteboard interview or personality test. It was just a simple conversation with the tech lead about my previous experience and if I had the experience to work on their current system I miss interviews like this. We need to compile a list of companies that still do this. In fact, getting on that list could really help a company's recruiting efforts - which in turn could influ…

I think they're gone because, within the limited time of an interview, it's hard to prove competence with chatting, for yourself, and especially in a way that can be communicated to others in the panel. Most places I've worked, firing is a bad bad thing. It means everyone involved with the hire failed, and morale is hurt by everyone that sees the person let go.

When I first started interviewing, this was the method I used. It turns out that most people have fanfic for resumes. "Designed a system" or "worked with a system" actually means "played an insignificant part in the design of a system" or "minimally modified some existing code". Getting to a point where this is obvious can take a significant portion of a 45 minute interview, and almost always comes from digging into the nitty gritty of the details, very close to code. Then, worried, you have them try to write some basic code as time runs out, and they completely flop, with that, and whatever small thing triggered your suspicion, being the only useful evidence you can point to for why you're saying no, even though others are saying yes.

So, I flipped it. I go for real evidence first, which gives me objective, repeatable, results, then any remaining time is left to talk and go into depth. I give them an easy work related problem, requiring realistic syntax. I've had people that were fantastic with communicating their ideas, and even pseudocode, but didn't know the syntax of a function or simple for loop, in the language of their choice. Take home code/screens can't be trusted, without basically goin through it line by line. Heck, video interviews can barely be trusted these days. I've many had people obviously, and not so obviously, copy paste the top google search result. I've even had people double team an interview, with the second person listening and typing the results on a second screen.

That said, I completely agree. My dream interview, either side, is just getting nerdy for an hour and a half with someone. But, especially for less senior roles, I can see why it's not popular, especially if you're stuck with short interviews, or are not the hiring manager, where you don't have to objectively justify things. Interviews are, unfortunately, a fairly adversarial interaction.

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#265

Post by neilv »

drewcoo wrote: post #173
neilv wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In imagination-land, it could've been a higher echelon of test. Despite the dynamic in which you were the one being tag-teamed in an interview, would your catalyst presence bring the interview back on track, with subtle grace? At the end of a series of "bad interview loop" tests, you learn that they secretly weren't interviewing you to be a coder, and now you are the next chosen-one CEO of Lego.

In my experience, tag-team or tribunal-style interviews are themselves a red flag. Usually it's a sign that the company doesn't know how to interview or whose opinions to trust, so they're just throwing everyone into the meeting. And any company being so openly dishonest as to set up fake arguments for candidates react to . . . if discovered, that's the mother of all red flags. This is not the case with new interview…

Tag-team/tribunal interview war stories...

One time, for an unspecified job at a think-tank-ish place, after passing the first phone screen, the recruiter lightly prepped me for a call with the hiring manager. So I get on the call that's supposed to be with the hiring manager she described... and the format is like a thesis defense in front of a room of people I can't see, taking turns asking me incisive questions, on topics of their choosing, over a speakerphone. At one point, one of the random people talking at me admonished, a bit sternly, "That's not what I asked you." I at least half-bombed it. (I did get invited to do a job-talk after, like for an academic job, so apparently someone decided I'd passed well enough or to give me another chance. But I was really peeved with the recruiter giving me worse-than-zero intel on what I walked into, and there were other demands on my time, with no job talk ready to go, so I declined.) Much later, I wondered whether that interviewer barrage was intentionally a surprise, to try to filter for people who wouldn't wilt if they were a think-tank expert suddenly put on speakerphone to room of clients on some matter.

The best tag-team interviews I recall were for an R&D unit role at a traditional financial institution, where I'd be interfacing with teams throughout the org. Some of them videoconfs (during Covid) were 2 or 3 higher-up people, representing different parts of the org. That actually worked in that case, and gave both of us parties an impression of what the other might be like in some of the kinds of interfacing between teams we'd be doing. I came away with a positive impression of smart, humble, and amiable people, who'd done big things, and would be good to work with. (I was fortunate to get that offer, and in hindsight should've taken it, at the time.)

The most recent tag-team interview was for an early startup (where the plan was I'd be a key IC, and later lead engineering/technology, as the multi-talented founder moved to focus only on CEO duties). One of the interviews was a videoconf with all three non-CEO engineers at once, and I got a favorable initial impression of them, but I had a lot more questions and felt like maybe I was being dumped on them without them having enough info about me. Later, as the founder put together an offer and bounced it off me, one of the diligence things I asked for was to meet one-on-one with at least one of the engineers from the tag-team, when we might speak more candidly than in a group, develop a little rapport, etc. Founder declined, and said something like, that wouldn't be useful. (Then other things came up on my calendar, and I'm embarrassed to say I accidentally ghosted them, so I never asked him what he meant, nor clarified why I still thought it'd be very useful to talk with any one of them one-on-one before signing on.)

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#266

Post by justinclift »

al2o3cr wrote: post #128
billy99k wrote: post #2

I once had a SW interview with a job that had a 2-hour long personality test. No tech questions. Just random questions to test my personality. It started out simple, like 'what was the last book you read' to more in-depth situations that had nothing to do with the job. The manager interviewing me (who admit he basically just started managing a month prior) told me he just read a 'great book on management' and wanted…

Just random questions to test my personality. "You're not turning the tortoise over, Billy. Why is that?" :P

Because I'm hungry. ;)

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#267

Post by justinclift »

dylan604 wrote: post #259
justinclift wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> bedside manner from a teacher Why would a teacher have "bedside manner"? Sounds pretty sus...

lack of better words to call it, but if a teacher is a bad teacher at an influential time, it easily can sour a student. how is that sus?

A teacher having anything to do with a student's "bedside" is liable to be arrested yeah?

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#268

Post by dylan604 »

justinclift wrote: post #267
dylan604 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

lack of better words to call it, but if a teacher is a bad teacher at an influential time, it easily can sour a student. how is that sus?

A teacher having anything to do with a student's " bedside " is liable to be arrested yeah?

jeebus christo you're either denser than lead or a really bad comedian yeah?

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#269

Post by saagarjha »

Alupis wrote: post #241
shermantanktop wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll probably get better answers to questions about polo, golf, opera, and croquet on Martha's Vineyard than you will in South Compton.

There are wealthy and poor people all across the country that do or do not participate or relate to any of those named things. You have identified a very specific type of economic class, which has nothing to do with "race" and/or ethnicity. I also doubt Canonical is only seeking people who "summer" in Martha's Vineyard, regardless of their skin color.

Nobody said they were. That was an example to explain how questions like these can be classist.

Re: I applied for a software role at FedEx and was asked to take a personality test

#270

Post by shermantanktop »

saagarjha wrote: post #269
Alupis wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are wealthy and poor people all across the country that do or do not participate or relate to any of those named things. You have identified a very specific type of economic class, which has nothing to do with "race" and/or ethnicity. I also doubt Canonical is only seeking people who "summer" in Martha's Vineyard, regardless of their skin color.

Nobody said they were. That was an example to explain how questions like these can be classist.

Exactly. That said, some standardized tests have been accused of class or race bias merely by the demographic distribution of outcomes, which requires a lot more explaining than asking whether "Does Buffy's Jaguar leak oil?" has a potential class bias.
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