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Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

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Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#131

Post by the_duke »

cdme wrote: post #3

Apple's seeking to comply with the letter, rather than the spirit, of the law in order to maintain their ability to extract rents from the App Store. It's user-hostile (particularly given that they've now hobbled PWAs) but not surprising. Their behavior won't change without additional regulatory action.

This particular legislation gives relatively broad enforcement power to the EU commission. IANAL, but it's possible, and in my primitive understanding quite likely, that they can take action without additional legislation because it's a stark violation of the obligations.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#132

Post by iakov »

smoldesu wrote: post #119
snapcaster wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly! I would tell those people to use Linux, not sue Microsoft to change their operating system

"Exactly! I would tell those people to use another telephone, not sue Bell Systems to change their phone network" "Exactly! I would tell those people to find another supplier, not sue Standard Oil to change their business tactics" "Exactly! I would tell those people to ride a different rail, not sue Pacific Railway Co. to change their train routes" - Monopoly apologism, through the centuries

With only difference being that you can buy non-apple device with different features, while Bell was pretty much the only option people had.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#133

Post by jebronie »

menacingly wrote: post #36

This is a complicated issue. On the one hand, I tend to have a generally unfavorable view of apple. I don't like closed systems, oversimplified to the point of missing critical settings UX, etc. That said, I really don't understand the issue with their cut, or insisting on handling payments. In the vast majority of cases, these are not your customers. These are apple's customers they have given you access to. If the…

It is actually the ISPs who give Apple access to their customers. ISPs should charge Apple a 30% fee on every transaction their customer makes on the app store.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#134

Post by math_dandy »

menacingly wrote: post #36

This is a complicated issue. On the one hand, I tend to have a generally unfavorable view of apple. I don't like closed systems, oversimplified to the point of missing critical settings UX, etc. That said, I really don't understand the issue with their cut, or insisting on handling payments. In the vast majority of cases, these are not your customers. These are apple's customers they have given you access to. If the…

> That said, I really don't understand the issue with their cut, or insisting on handling payments. In the vast majority of cases, these are not your customers. These are apple's customers they have given you access to.

Windows users aren’t viewed as Microsoft’s customers from the point of view of third party software. Same with MacOS. Apple has pushed this paradigm in iOS because it’s ludicrously profitable.

Controlling the evolution of a ubiquitous computing platform gives a company a huge amount of power. Add to that the power to control any commercial transaction performed on that platform is simply too much concentration of power.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#135

Post by sleepybrett »

e63f67dd-065b wrote: post #49
menacingly wrote: post #36

This is a complicated issue. On the one hand, I tend to have a generally unfavorable view of apple. I don't like closed systems, oversimplified to the point of missing critical settings UX, etc. That said, I really don't understand the issue with their cut, or insisting on handling payments. In the vast majority of cases, these are not your customers. These are apple's customers they have given you access to. If the…

> That said, I really don't understand the issue with their cut, or insisting on handling payments. In the vast majority of cases, these are not your customers. These are apple's customers they have given you access to. This is not true at all. Netflix customers are Netflix customers, not Apple; the same goes for Amazon Kindle, Spotify, etc. Netflix literally cannot include a link to netflix.com in their app, otherwi…

It is absolutely true. Apple doesn't take a cut from any of your examples EXCEPT if they make that payment through the app on their phone. If they redirect you to a website to subscribe, apple sees nothing. If your customers use the rails that apple has greased up FOR YOU then they take a cut.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#137

Post by FirmwareBurner »

pdonis wrote: post #118
oatmeal1 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These are apple's customers they have given you access to. What would happen if this had been the standard applied to Windows? > If the arguments were "these restrictions are so burdensome I can't be in the app store!", that's a different conversation. But they tend to be "I can access such an irresistible amount of customers via apple, I just wish I could take those benefits à la carte. For some developers, they a…

> What would happen if this had been the standard applied to Windows? Microsoft had no problem taking features from popular third party Windows applications and building them into their own products, basically stealing the third party developers' markets. That looks worse to me than what Apple is doing.

Plese stop repeating this FUD in every reply on this thread, you already posted the exact same comment here[1] and here[2] as well, and I already explained you why it's false.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39348035

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39348077

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#138

Post by hermitcrab »

I've been selling softare on Mac (and Windows) for nearly 2 decades. I've never bothered with the Mac App Store. I just couldn't be bothered to jump through the hoops and I didn't want Apple getting between me and my customer. I guess that isn't a realistic option for iOS apps though.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#139

Post by smoldesu »

iakov wrote: post #132
smoldesu wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Exactly! I would tell those people to use another telephone, not sue Bell Systems to change their phone network" "Exactly! I would tell those people to find another supplier, not sue Standard Oil to change their business tactics" "Exactly! I would tell those people to ride a different rail, not sue Pacific Railway Co. to change their train routes" - Monopoly apologism, through the centuries

With only difference being that you can buy non-apple device with different features, while Bell was pretty much the only option people had.

You could buy non-Bell phones and even connect them to a functioning telephone network. The problem (and incentive for antitrust action) was Bell's business of charging users to connect to their proprietary and all-encompassing network. They created a situation where the only way to compete was to acquiesce with Bell's exploitative terms.

It's not illegal to be a monopoly, it's illegal to abuse monopoly power.

Re: Developers revolt over Apple's new app store rules

#140

Post by cedilla »

the_solenoid wrote: post #91
menacingly wrote: post #36

This is a complicated issue. On the one hand, I tend to have a generally unfavorable view of apple. I don't like closed systems, oversimplified to the point of missing critical settings UX, etc. That said, I really don't understand the issue with their cut, or insisting on handling payments. In the vast majority of cases, these are not your customers. These are apple's customers they have given you access to. If the…

I like your takes on this. To me, theres two issues: 1) this push is all driven by big businesses looking to just get free money for nothing, which is why I worry that the EU is so taken up with it. 2) taxes, is you want to line apples 30% up with those, are just part of business. No, you cant write off the 30%, but if you want to keep adding 250million new phones to your potential customer base every year.... wtf, p…

> 1) this push is all driven by big businesses looking to just get free money for nothing, which is why I worry that the EU is so taken up with it.

Do you just assume that? Because in the article, two decidedly small businesses are mentioned as leading the charge: Tuta and Proton. Not exactly friends of big business either.

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