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Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

theguardian.com

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Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#351

Post by bena »

reaperman wrote: post #264
bena wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Then fair enough.

However, there's no shame in the actual hustle. But that is what's happening in the tipping system.

I'm not trying to start a flamewar. Accusing others of that is just as intellectually dishonest as you think I was. And inflammatory in and of itself.

As to "you can believe what you want, but you're just wrong", is the belief that the incentives are misaligned. The cost to keep the kitchen open is prohibitive enough to not do it for the random straggler. You need better than half a customer an hour.

Servers do not want tipping to end. They want to be tipped and to be prorated when they're not actively tipped. They want it both ways.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#352

Post by robocat »

charles_f wrote: post #133
thaumasiotes wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having no overtime for salaried employees This is just the definition of "salaried employee".

I'm salaried, my contract says that I owe them 37.5h a week. Surely if I'm doing my work in much less and stop working, I'm stealing. When I'm waking up at 2am to handle an incident and still have to clock in the day after, "that's part of the job". Favors only go one way

There's a term Employers use: "time theft". For the time that employees were paid for but didn't do work.

Plenty of good examples: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22time+theft%22+us

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#353

Post by undersuit »

alkonaut wrote: post #42
dbingham wrote: post #26

One of the clearest illustrations of the deeply injust structural power imbalance at the heart of our economic system is wage theft. If your employer withholds $20 from your paycheck it's a civil violation of contract law. You have to go through an extremely onerous and convoluted process that very likely won't go anywhere. If, in response, you decide to pay yourself by taking $20 from the till, that's criminal theft…

I wonder if there has ever been a case (I'm sure there has) where someone stole say a $20 from the register, because the manager owed them $20. And whether the fact they could prove the manager owed them money made any difference in the theft case.

And take on my employer's responsibility to tax that $20 correctly? No thanks.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#354

Post by HeatrayEnjoyer »

ghaff wrote: post #345
yen223 wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have yet to see a CEO choose to go back down the food chain, even though that is something they have the power to do.

CEOs of large companies generally don't go back down the food chain because they don't need to. They retire/semi-retire (e.g. get a board seat or some other advisor type of position) instead.

The strongest factor in personal employment decisions is what we "need to". Of course a CEO doesn't need to continue pulling their weight when they have piles of cash to retire on.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#355

Post by HeatrayEnjoyer »

tristor wrote: post #321
alan-hn wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that mean everyone wants to be a waiter and nobody wants to be a CEO?

> Does that mean everyone wants to be a waiter and nobody wants to be a CEO? Unironically, yes. Most people don't have enough exposure to actually understand what the job of a CEO is. I have had that exposure, and I don't ever want to be the CEO of any sizeable company. Once you become CEO, work/life balance utterly ceases to exist, because you are the person imbued as the corporation, meaning you are literally alway…

This is no worse than the demands beared by countless $12/hr general managers.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#356

Post by vundercind »

CaptainFever wrote: post #347
vundercind wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is any of this unique to a capitalist system and prevented in, say, command economies? Social-capitalist economies (the “social democracies” and adjacent) tend to do better job at this particular thing. Unions are pretty damn effective at cutting down on employers failing to follow through on their obligations, for one thing, and other states do a better job of supporting and incubating those organizations, bes…

(Not GP) I think this is fair enough of an answer, I agree with you. Though, when complaining about capitalism to try to improve it, it is probably best to mention social-capitalism as what you are advocating for. Due to the recent political climate (e.g. the Russian invasion) communists are also complaining about capitalism on online forums as a way to advocate for it, which I believe is why GP thought you were talk…

Ah, fair point. The most extreme ideology I even kind of identify with is left-libertarianism, for the record, and mostly I’d just like a better social safety net, better social services, better consumer protection (this, overall, helps the market! Markets are pretty awesome and we definitely should work to keep them healthy and helpful) and stronger unions. I reckon that’s about as good as a large state can get, in the current environment.

I get the communism association given the origin of the term “capitalism”, though it’s been pretty thoroughly adopted and embraced by, well, capitalists. But no, I’m not a fan of communism and didn’t mean to give that impression.

In a world where political labelling can be so very misleading (“people’s democratic republic”) I just find it a bit amusing, and maybe even refreshing, that we tend to self-label our system as capitalist (among other things, to be fair) and that’s pretty damn honest. Take the term fairly literally and it’s a good guide to what you see actually happening, and what you ought to try to do to attain greater privileges and protections. We announce exactly what our deal is.

[edit] more to the point, I wasn’t even trying to get into a what’s-better discussion, just pointing out that thing from the last paragraph, really.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#357

Post by mjburgess »

tremon wrote: post #348
mjburgess wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know of no example in all of human history of a free market without a state, at least one of more than a short period -- so my position is very weak here, if you can show only one, i'd have to at least modify it. Yet, I bet you cannot. Neutrally, using the term "anarchical market", i'd say that these markets are empheral. Everyone them has to act against rules which are not in their self-interest, it's highly uncle…

[an] example in all of human history of a free market without a state The Hanseatic League. This was basically its own trade association across North Europe, based on maritime trade. It had considerable market/economic power, but no legislative power; most participants were city-states so they were self-reliant to a degree, but none of them had jurisdiction or power over the entire group.

I can't speak to the example other than skimming wikipedia, but:

> Hanseatic Cities gradually developed common trade regulations.

> That year, the merchants of the Hansa in Cologne convinced King Henry II of England to exempt them from all tolls in London[26] and to grant protection to merchants and goods throughout England.[27]: 14–17

> etc.

> By the mid-16th century, these weak connections left the Hanseatic League vulnerable, and it gradually unraveled as members became consolidated into other realms or departed, ultimately disintegrating in 1669.

So it looks like the league was parasitic on the relevant states involved being able to implement regulations, so, basically exactly the point i'm making.

And secondarily, insofar as the legague itself lacked a mechanism to enforce transnational agreeement, it was weak and collpased.

So QED: insofar as participating states had viable regulating mechanisms the system work; insofar as challenges arose which requrired transnational mechanisms, it fell apart.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#358

Post by jokoon »

stevenwoo wrote: post #314
jokoon wrote: post #309

The US never ceases to surprise me That's so medieval and backward for a country like that

If I'm not mistaken, we are the only country which has a founding document enshrining chattel slavery. Many of the issues in the USA stem from this, amendments notwithstanding - it's a stain on everything, arguments in the top legal court, the Supreme Court, frequently bring up the historicity so we are constantly enmeshed in very old and sometimes medieval thinking, i.e. recent abortion decision referenced many lega…

what bothers me is that the country with the most dominant military sometimes looks like it might turn bad which would not be good for the rest of the world

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#359

Post by ghaff »

HeatrayEnjoyer wrote: post #354
ghaff wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CEOs of large companies generally don't go back down the food chain because they don't need to. They retire/semi-retire (e.g. get a board seat or some other advisor type of position) instead.

The strongest factor in personal employment decisions is what we "need to". Of course a CEO doesn't need to continue pulling their weight when they have piles of cash to retire on.

As a CEO (or elite athlete, etc.) it can also be getting an even more prestigious role. But, yes, failing that it probably makes sense to drop the whole thing and just enjoy your piles of cash (which may or may not involve still doing some nominal work).

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#360

Post by kcatskcolbdi »

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #236
amrocha wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look yourself in the mirror and tell yourself you honestly believe drug dealers are stealing formula to cut drugs with rather than mom's just need to feed their babies

Maybe you should stop looking at yourself in the mirror and look at the data? As a parent, I feel people like you are the reason formula ends up being unavailable for real babies as you enable gangs to steal them driving up cost. Here is a list of places with free baby formula and stuff in the Bay Area: https://www.211bayarea.org/sanfrancisco/food/food-programs/f... https://www.findhelp.org/goods/diapers-%26-formula-…

>As a parent, I feel people like you are the reason...

You must have missed the part of the post where they stated:

>I worked at $retailer for a time, and even their statements were to "DO NOT ENGAGE SHOPLIFTERS".

"People like [them]" are being told from their employers to not engage shoplifters.

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