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Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

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Re: Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

#191
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is interesting. So Oracle holding around 52000 patents pays around 23.000.000 USD a year in maintenance?

Yes, having patents is expensive. Large corporations often file patents for defensive reasons, and for this they employ multiple patent lawyers full time.

Yeah, so add a couple of millions on top oof the 23.000.000 a year for lawyers and other staff.

Re: Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Patents are property and we need taxes/fee on it. $500/year per patent, will ensure use it (if you think it is valuable) or lose it. This is no different from domain names, most people pay $10 - $100/year just to keep a domain name. Some domain names are used, most aren't. These taxes can fund free education or healthcare or defense.

> $500/year per patent, will ensure use it (if you think it is valuable) or lose it. Not really. Some patents are fantastically valuable to patent trolls. Some are not. A $500/year fee isn't going to deter a "company" of lawyers who are making millions soaking businesses with patents that should never have been granted. If you want a scheme that actually does what you want, you'd need something like: The owner of the…

>a scheme that actually does what you want

This seems like a pretty bad attempt at such a scheme.

Re: Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $500/year per patent, will ensure use it (if you think it is valuable) or lose it. Not really. Some patents are fantastically valuable to patent trolls. Some are not. A $500/year fee isn't going to deter a "company" of lawyers who are making millions soaking businesses with patents that should never have been granted. If you want a scheme that actually does what you want, you'd need something like: The owner of the…

Maybe when you file the patent, you have to submit an anticipated value statement and you are taxed some % / year on that anticipated value. If somebody violates the patent, you can sue them for up to the amount you anticipated, but not more. In the future you can amend the value claim, but you can only adjust it down.

So someone inventing something for say mobile phones in the 80s that is still used would have estimated their patentent to not be so useful because the number of mobile phones wasnt that high. And if Apple violated their patent they would just pay pennies because of that? It is extremly hard to estimate the worth of a tech 30 years into the future invented today. Take a tech invented today and tell me what the market value will be in 30 years and how sure you are about that predicition.

Re: Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

#194
post #31

There needs to be a "use it or lose it" doctrine/law around technological IP. I get all the arguments around creating a market for the patent rights, but it just leads to these bottom feeders creating no value and increasing costs for the industry and consumers.

Patents are property and we need taxes/fee on it. $500/year per patent, will ensure use it (if you think it is valuable) or lose it. This is no different from domain names, most people pay $10 - $100/year just to keep a domain name. Some domain names are used, most aren't. These taxes can fund free education or healthcare or defense.

I would be in favor of a fee that is 1024 * 2^n USD where n is the nth year you want to keep the patent.

1st year = 2000 USD

10th year = 1m USD per year

20th year = 1bn USD per year

It becomes prohibitively expensive if you don't use it. After 23 years it would make only sense for the most insane blockbuster drugs to keep going for another year.

Re: Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

#195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide some recent examples of where patents likely played a positive role in innovation?

Probably every pharmaceutical patent. In software? Um... . (But you asked "where patents" and not "where software patents", so...)

> Probably every pharmaceutical patent.

Great, they've played their role, then. I'm ready for that stage to be over now. IMO if there's an incentive to manufacture distribute the product, let that be the incentive.

Re: Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

#196
post #3

At the end of the day, this is a deep legislation issue, patents should not exist at all. They are supposed to promote innovation, in practice, it's more about protecting guys who sitting and waiting for passive cash. Once we give exclusive rights to all AI stuff to Nvidia, is the world going to be a better place ? What would be with ChatGPT if Google actually had enforced (or enforces) patents on Transformers. Is th…

So you spend billions($2.5 billion being average) inventing a new drug and anyone should be allowed to copy and sell it? That would foster innovation and not kill pharmaceutical market?

Re: Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

#198
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone invents something truly novel I think they deserve the first right to make money off it. The extra bonus of having them file a patent is that when it expires it becomes free public knowledge for everyone. The problem for software is that the duration of the patent is way too long for the pace of innovation in the world of software, to the point that a reasonable duration patent probably wouldn't even be wo…

What would be an example? Like you invent a new compression algorithm and nobody else should be able to use it for a year or two?

Well patents are supposed to be more "you have to pay me if you want to use it before the term expires". Maybe a requirement to offer patent licenses for a reasonable price could help there, but it's tricky. I think at a minimum though software patents should have a shorter term than physical inventions.

Re: Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

#199
post #45
post #31

There needs to be a "use it or lose it" doctrine/law around technological IP. I get all the arguments around creating a market for the patent rights, but it just leads to these bottom feeders creating no value and increasing costs for the industry and consumers.

There are research companies who only do research and get money by licencing their patents. I mean, I really would like to live in a world without patents, but currently those companies do provide value, but cannot exist, without guarding their IP. Yet they would cease to exist, with your proposal.

ARM for example.

Re: Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

#200
post #31

There needs to be a "use it or lose it" doctrine/law around technological IP. I get all the arguments around creating a market for the patent rights, but it just leads to these bottom feeders creating no value and increasing costs for the industry and consumers.

Patents are property and we need taxes/fee on it. $500/year per patent, will ensure use it (if you think it is valuable) or lose it. This is no different from domain names, most people pay $10 - $100/year just to keep a domain name. Some domain names are used, most aren't. These taxes can fund free education or healthcare or defense.

Why would we tax that property (at the federal level) and not others?

What would this do to people who file their own patents to protect their own inventions? Historically, that's been the vast bulk of all useful inventions in this country.

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