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Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

theguardian.com

321–330 of 457 posts

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Universities run on people like me who are of the "academic mindset", who can and will do things like teaching because we love it as a vocation even though the salary is a quarter or fifth of what is on offer privately. Everything runs like this. Jobs people want will pay less than jobs people don't want.

Does that mean everyone wants to be a waiter and nobody wants to be a CEO?

> Does that mean everyone wants to be a waiter and nobody wants to be a CEO?

Unironically, yes. Most people don't have enough exposure to actually understand what the job of a CEO is. I have had that exposure, and I don't ever want to be the CEO of any sizeable company. Once you become CEO, work/life balance utterly ceases to exist, because you are the person imbued as the corporation, meaning you are literally always working, always on call, always stuck with the most difficult or intractable decisions where maybe all the options are wrong, and no matter your choice everyone will hate you. It's a terrible job that people only do because it pays so well.

I am not the CEO but I'm much higher up the food chain today than I was when I started. I often reminisce fondly about my time working phone tech support, because I could work my queue and walk out without having to give any thought to anything that occurred that day. That's not the reality of being in any sort of management role, and the higher up you go the less that matches reality.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#322
post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not theft. It's not even really unethical. It's well-understood that the value of RSUs is not guaranteed. Nor is bonus pay. For one, this kind of comp only typically applies to people earning a base salary way above the median and that anyone accepting comp in terms of company or personal performance is willingly signing on to accept the risk.

It is theft; it is definitely highly unethical; RSUs are guaranteed pay; doesn’t matter if salary is above median; willingly signing a contract because companies have better bargaining power doesn’t make it right.

The above comment said specifically they are end-of-year grants. That's a bonus and it's never ever guaranteed. Fired or not, they can just say "no bonuses this" and it's 100% the employer's prerogative. Happened to me plenty of times in down years. Not to mention, stock is inherently volatile so 1000 shares can be worth an arbitrary amount.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#323

This has happened to me! In a programming job, no less! Is this something which could be addressed through the use of a specialized AI assistant? The biggest barrier to uncompensated workers is the cost of litigation. If the worker could represent themselves effectively, then this would stop.

>Is this something which could be addressed through the use of a specialized AI assistant? JFC tech workers sometimes. Just unionize man, that's like the whole point of unions. An "AI assistant" that was effective would be telling you the same thing. You can't convince your boss that paying you what you are owed is the correct choice, you don't have any power in the relationship. Whether they are right or not, they B…

JFC tech workers sometimes. Just unionize man

Basically, people don't want to do the lawsuit, because they don't know how and to pay for the expertise, it would cost more than the paycheck.

The most straightforward way to fix it, is to make the expertise low or zero cost.

An "AI assistant" that was effective would be telling you the same thing.

No, it would tell me how to conduct the lawsuit.

Below is what ChatGPT-4 just told me. Had I known back then, I would have just done this. (And I note that the lawyer who told me it would cost me more than I would get back didn't tell me a lot of this!)

User

I have been shorted $4000 on my last paycheck when I was let go by a software company in Columbia, South Carolina. What is the jurisprudence on being shorted pay, what do I have to prove, and how do I go about bringing the lawsuit.

ChatGPT

In a situation where you've been shorted on your final paycheck, the specific steps you can take and the jurisprudence around it largely depend on both federal and state laws. Here's a general overview of what you need to know and potential steps you could take, specifically tailored to Columbia, South Carolina:

Jurisprudence on Being Shorted Pay

Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA): At the federal level, the FLSA requires that employees are paid for all hours worked. If an employer fails to pay you what you're owed, you may have a claim under the FLSA.

State Laws: South Carolina has its own labor laws that complement federal laws. While South Carolina does not have specific laws governing the timing of final paychecks for terminated employees, employers are generally expected to adhere to the agreed-upon terms of pay. If no specific terms are set, then they must follow the usual pay schedule.

What You Have to Prove

To bring a successful claim for unpaid wages, you typically need to prove:

The Amount Owed: Documentation or evidence of the agreed-upon wages and the shortfall in your final paycheck. Hours Worked: Evidence of the hours you worked for which you have not been paid. This could include time sheets, emails, or other records. Attempts to Resolve: It's often beneficial to show that you've made reasonable attempts to resolve the issue with your employer before resorting to legal action. Steps to Take Review Employment Agreement: Check your employment contract or any official documentation regarding pay rates, schedules, and termination policies.

Gather Documentation: Compile all relevant documents, including pay stubs, employment contracts, correspondence with the employer about your pay, and any records of hours worked.

Attempt to Resolve Directly: It's often recommended to attempt to resolve the issue with your employer directly. Sometimes, pay discrepancies are due to clerical errors and can be corrected without legal action.

File a Wage Claim: If direct resolution isn't possible, you can file a wage claim with the South Carolina Department of Labor, Licensing and Regulation (SCLLR). While SCLLR does not handle wage disputes directly, they can guide you on the process and what state resources might be available.

Consult with an Attorney: Consider consulting with an employment law attorney who is familiar with South Carolina's laws. An attorney can advise you on the best course of action, whether it's negotiating a settlement or filing a lawsuit. They can also help you understand your rights and the strengths of your case.

Small Claims Court: For amounts under a certain threshold (which varies by state), you might be able to bring a claim in small claims court without the need for an attorney. In South Carolina, the limit for small claims court is $7,500.

Federal Claim: If your case involves violations of federal law (such as FLSA violations), you might also have the option to file a complaint with the U.S. Department of Labor's Wage and Hour Division.

Each case is unique, so it's important to get personalized legal advice. An attorney can help you navigate the specific procedures and ensure your rights are protected throughout the process.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to demonstrate to someone why the legal system is designed for the wealthy and not the common people, I don't think you can do better than the entire subject of wage theft. Wage theft utterly eclipses every other form of larceny in the United States at least, and it is practically legal in every way apart from the letter of the law. Few companies ever see any consequences at all, and the few that do, it's…

> Wage theft utterly eclipses every other form of larceny in the United States at least If you define being late with payments as theft, then I'd bet that rent theft is way larger than wage theft. I don't see why you would say that it is theft when you are late with payments to a worker but not theft when you are late with payments to a company. If being late with payments isn't theft, then "wage theft" isn't theft,…

If being late with payments was theft then by far, far the largest form of larceny would be B2B. Late payments from businesses to vendors eclipses late rent. That's why there's an entire industry built around collecting payments, called factoring companies. That's why there are people hired as credit controllers to chase late payments.

Source: wife worked as a credit controller.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The promise of salary work in America is such one sided bullcrap. Get paid the same amount of to get your work done no matter the time it takes. if it takes 6 hours or 12 hours, you'll get the same amount. But if you don't work at least 40hrs a week on salary, we're docking your pay. Oh but also, you don't get paid for any hours over 8 in a day. Salary!

> But if you don't work at least 40hrs a week on salary, we're docking your pay. I've never encountered such a system in my 20+ years being paid a salary. What companies do this? Worked for two European firms (including one very large one) and two large American firms during that time. Is it something small companies try to do?

It tends to be on the lower end of the salaried world and/or less desired employers. I think it’s also increasingly less common in general. But there are many companies that time clock their salaried professionals or require time sheets. For instance, as a higher end example, Goldman Sachs requires most employees to file a time sheet allocating their work to the nearest hour. The reality is people just put in 40 hours regardless, but depending on the line manager it can be more tightly controlled. In some operations roles where cost control is a big deal and hours are billed back to the upstream revenue producing departments, time sheets are scrutinized closely.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#326
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem is that these sort of things[...] seems to always be answered with "no, because it's a poor people problem". It's not just that. There are people that will outright deny that it's happening. The reasoning trotted out is that if it were true that this were happening then it would be squashed. In other words, if it were happening, then it would not be happening. From the article: > According to a 2018 rep…

> if it were happening, then it would not be happening. Note that this is US law enforcement in general. The "if middle america were using drugs at the same rate of inner cities then we'd see arrest rates at the same levels" argument we here. While studies show that drug use is similar between these groups, enforcement in cities, specifically against minority groups is much higher.

Indeed the overdose data seems to indicate a worse problem in rural areas, with West Virginia topping the per capita OD rate:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/drug_poisoning_mor...

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#327

People thinking wage theft only affects lower wage workers, let me tell you how tech companies commit wage theft: 1. Having annual components to wages (RSUs, bonuses), making you work all year and firing you just before they have to pay you. 2. Having no overtime for salaried employees 3. Having employees work extra responsibilities that are not part of the job description by promising promotions and then not giving…

The promise of salary work in America is such one sided bullcrap. Get paid the same amount of to get your work done no matter the time it takes. if it takes 6 hours or 12 hours, you'll get the same amount. But if you don't work at least 40hrs a week on salary, we're docking your pay. Oh but also, you don't get paid for any hours over 8 in a day. Salary!

Salaried used to mean you were paid a certain amount for working there and there was no accounting for time, vacation, or sick. It was the pinnacle of professional work, included two hour three martini lunches daily, and the ability to harass the hourly pool in various ways.

Overtime and various other hourly worker protections led to more and more work being classified as salaried, and with it, a removal of the “perks” for most salaried people.

Generally the primary perk that still follows salaried work though is the concept of vacation, sick time, and benefits albeit rationed and beancounted now.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#328

This phenomena is pretty widespread in the service industry and I would venture to say that a significant minority of businesses participate in some version of wage theft. For example, one of my jobs right out of high school was waiting tables at a local restaurant. If you were opening, the expectation from owners and management was you'd get in early to help open but would wait 15 minutes before service started befo…

>I think it only ended up costing me $7/week in wages - but if I stole $7 out of the till each week for a year in a half I'd be charged with a felony.

These are not comparable as working an extra 15 minutes is a consensual tranaction where getting $7 stolen from the business was an unconsensual transaction. A better comparison would be along for a $7 per week raise.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

err.. no, free markets are state constructions. By default, an unregulated market becomes non-free essentially immediately, as cartels form (indeed, as cartels of cartels form, hence states ). As Hobbes observed, in the state of nature there is no motivation to remain as an individual, so you form groups in order for self-protection. In an "anarchical market" you end up with incredible levels of monopolisation (etc.)…

Cartels are a feature of free markets. I would argue that it's good for the state to take some sort of interest in regulating them, one of several ways that I'm not a free-market fundamentalist. But arguing that the formation of cartels makes a market non-free is backward. Cartels emerge through free association in trade. Regulating them might make for a more functional market, a more efficient market (or it might no…

graeber/wengrow would disagree

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having no overtime for salaried employees This is just the definition of "salaried employee".

The whole idea of salary is ridiculous. The FLSA needs to be fixed so that forcing workers to work 24/7 is explicitly banned. This is particularly true for workers whose jobs are computer based. Companies think they can pay one shift of workers to keep the computers running 24/7. It should not be that way. If a company wants its computing infrastructure running 24/7 it should pay for 3 shifts of workers. If not then…

Yup. Used to work as an SRE, we were on-call 24/7 for PagerDuty (which, thankfully, wasn't horrific, but...). The company was "ramping up" for three shifts/follow-the-sun/whatever.

Over a year later, they were still "ramping up". Not a single interview had taken place, to the best of my knowledge.

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