Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 457 posts

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#291

Post by MeImCounting »

Jensson wrote: post #275
MeImCounting wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell me youve never worked in service industry without telling me youve never worked in the service industries. This isnt "being late with payments" that is as you have correctly pointed out, not theft. "late" implies that eventually the wages are in fact paid. This is not what people are talking about when they are talking about wage theft.

Tell me you have never rented out without telling me you have never rented out something. People refuse to pay rent all the time unless you start to threaten legal action over it. We call that late payment, but they would never pay unless you went after them, just like these companies. > This isnt "being late with payments" "Being late with payments" doesn't mean they are late, it means they haven't paid you yet. Tha…

I have actually worked in property management. It was incredibly educational. I learned a lot about how "landlords" are really the single greediest, laziest class of individuals one is ever likely to encounter. Eternally lamenting over how they're so under-appreciated and taken advantage of. There are always exceptions to any rule, sure but for the most part "professional landlords" are parasites. Anyway you clearly arent understanding the point here.

If you rent an apartment and agreed to pay 3000 a month for it and instead only pay 2500 a month you would be taken to court and lose the case. If an employer did the same it would be "a civil matter" having seen this firsthand I can attest to the truth of this.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#292

Post by wahnfrieden »

UncleMeat wrote: post #262
pierat wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the breathless reporting of "MAJOR CHAIN STORE SHUTS DOWN SINGLE BUSINESS DUE TO EXTREME THEFT", yeah. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/as-retailers-close-stores-... https://www.npr.org/2023/09/28/1202264923/major-retailers-bl... https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/19/target-store-closures-theft-... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/target-closing-stores-2023-san-... https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/26/business/target-retail-t…

It gets even worse than just the media. A bunch of legislation has been proposed or passed specifically to target "organized retail theft." In Virginia, legislation upped the designation for "stealing several thousand dollars of stuff with other people" to the same felony category as stabbing somebody while jack shit is done to crack down on wage theft.

If people don't care about the $ severity of the crime, what is it they care about to keep this going as it does?

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#293

Post by [deleted] »

ncallaway wrote: post #93
avgcorrection wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not only would they fire you but they'd call up all their industry buddies and you'd basically be on every other restaurants no-hire list. So like a much-dreaded union for employers except it’s underhanded and illegal.

Yes, exactly. And it’s underhanded and illegal when employers do it, because there’s an imbalance of power between employee and employee. Unions exist to even out that balance of power. When employers engage in that kind of activity it further increases the imbalance of power. For example, in this case, they were using that tactic to support their ability to steal from employees.

[deleted]

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#294

Post by mrguyorama »

vundercind wrote: post #163
sneak wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In America, going to the police isn’t that easy. They will issue you a police report number for your insurance claim, but they are under zero obligation to investigate or prevent any crime. They’ve been quiet quitting across the country since the George Floyd protests and they are working less than ever. Police interventions have been going down, crime has been going up, but staffing and funding has been mostly flat.…

This predates the BLM movement and such. I’m aware of maybe ten or so property crimes committed against friends, family, and employers, with damage and theft ranging from low-thousands (2024 dollars—some of these were decades ago) to $20k or so. I’ve never once known the police to do anything but scoff at the notion and treat you like an idiot if you go in thinking they’re going to investigate anything at all, no mat…

Indeed, "the cops won't do anything if you get robbed" is a meme among even the most conservative average people. Yet the "back the blue" support persists. Can you imagine if firefighters took your emergency call, never showed up, and still had half the country support giving them MORE funding and less accountability?

Hell, the clearance rate on murders is %50, and that includes a substantial chunk of people incorrectly found guilty despite the cops having DNA evidence that would exonerate them.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#295

Post by dheera »

madsbuch wrote: post #188
avgcorrection wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not only would they fire you but they'd call up all their industry buddies and you'd basically be on every other restaurants no-hire list. So like a much-dreaded union for employers except it’s underhanded and illegal.

> > not only would they fire you but they'd call up all their industry buddies and you'd basically be on every other restaurants no-hire list. An interjection: Under GDPR this is illegal. (Just a reminder that "tech" legislation sometimes also improve on broader levels)

The US isn't subject to GDPR.

I see a lot of US websites with annoying GDPR popups and they really don't need to do that over here.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#296

Post by kelseyfrog »

vundercind wrote: post #284
mjburgess wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an irony that capitalism is claimed by the anarcho-libertarian lot. As capitalism is the most collectivised system in human history (consider, only, the scale of Microsoft) -- and also the most anti-capitalist system (ie., it forces capitalists to compete and hence dramatically diminishes their power relative to other systems). Perhaps one day we might see capitalism as an "iterated socialism" (ie., socialis…

Yeah, last I checked the “story” of capitalism and strong market economies is generally regarded as essentially having the emergence of the proto-nation-state (as in e.g. Spain under the “Catholic Monarchs”) as a prerequisite, as far as being something that can exist on an all-encompassing scale rather than in the margins, in tiny states navigating the “waters” between larger polities with other economic systems. Sta…

That's essentially my understanding too. The legal construction of property, and rule and commodification of law are all necessary functions of market economies.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#297

Post by [deleted] »

mjburgess wrote: post #186
ncallaway wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, exactly. And it’s underhanded and illegal when employers do it, because there’s an imbalance of power between employee and employee. Unions exist to even out that balance of power. When employers engage in that kind of activity it further increases the imbalance of power. For example, in this case, they were using that tactic to support their ability to steal from employees.

To clarify this further: The employer is already a collective, "A business", and the hiring manager is operating with the full power of that collective in hiring/firing negotations. A union is a collective to balance power against the business (collective). A cartel is a collective of collectives (ie., a group of businesses) operating to defeat free market competition regulation, in this sense the cartel is balancing…

[deleted]

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#298

Post by Jensson »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #289
Jensson wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rent late, wages unpaid Those two are the same, a person who is late would typically never pay if they didn't get threatening mail to "remind" them.

Citation: Dude trust me Hot, hot, hot fucking garbage. When I was in college and broke, and struggled to make rent, I was KEENLY FUCKING AWARE I owed it. It was a fact that was on my mind 24 hours a day, including inducing stress nightmares about losing my place to live. Just absolute, 100%, shit from a bull's ass. Bullshit, you might say. I dunno where in the world you got this notion, but as someone who spent a you…

You don't think that the people who run companies that makes negative profits and thus can't pay workers since they lack the money doesn't feel the same? Just because some do that doesn't mean it is the norm.

Edit: You see plenty of stories from company owners who worry if they can pay salaries next month and it is all they can think about, that is the kind of person you are calling a "wage thief" here, even though they just like you are just struggling and trying to make ends meet.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#299

Post by mrguyorama »

mrangle wrote: post #37

Slaving: Not paying for work. Internships: some may be legit, most are slave labor schemes with many being deeply institutionalized in systems such as healthcare and education. Lower than minimum wage with an expectation that tips will make up the difference (just be done with tipping, pay at least minimum wage, and raise food prices). Mistreatment

The tipping thing is insane. I live in a rather progressive city, very pro labor. Many local restaurants have added small fees to your bill, often called something like "living wage fee" or something similar, the implication being it's a fee to help improve the wages the staff get.

Except it's a 3% fee! I'm paying $50 for steak, surely you can just freaking charge me $52 and pay the staff what they deserve?! Why all this nonsense around adding fees like you're the local cable company? You've spent more editing your printed menus to include this new disclaimer than it would cost to just pay your damn staff!

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#300

Post by wehhhhhh »

darth_avocado wrote: post #43

People thinking wage theft only affects lower wage workers, let me tell you how tech companies commit wage theft: 1. Having annual components to wages (RSUs, bonuses), making you work all year and firing you just before they have to pay you. 2. Having no overtime for salaried employees 3. Having employees work extra responsibilities that are not part of the job description by promising promotions and then not giving…

They do it in more direct ways, too. You might be surprised how long some people will work with only the promise of future payment. You might be surprised how long someone can go on committing wage theft (and other general fraud) without repercussion.

I'm self-employed and have made it a standard practice to look up court records on any new client I'm considering to take on. It has been eye opening.

Post reply on HN