Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers • Hacker News Board

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#261

Post by lostlogin » Mon, Feb 12, 2024, 4:53 PM UTC

phpisthebest wrote: post #220

mjburgess wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To clarify this further: The employer is already a collective, "A business", and the hiring manager is operating with the full power of that collective in hiring/firing negotations. A union is a collective to balance power against the business (collective). A cartel is a collective of collectives (ie., a group of businesses) operating to defeat free market competition regulation, in this sense the cartel is balancing…

This is very simplistic, and somewhat wrong First and foremost, states do not, and cannot "create free markets" the existence of a state to regulation a market makes is de-facto non-free This is also a very rose colored look at unions, while simultaneously demonizing businesses. In reality it is completely possible to have an exploitive union. At the end of the day, power corrupts, and the more power a person or grou…

> This is also a very rose colored look at unions, while simultaneously demonizing businesses. In reality it is completely possible to have an exploitive union.

Have you got any examples of this?

When I look at large unions where I am, it goes one of two ways. They get large and hopeless (teachers union and nurses union) or they get powerful enough that they can dictate such that they can make a meaningful change for their members.

I’ve seen some impressive conditioned earned by doctors unions, police unions and one I belonged to for allied health professionals.

None of them seem to be exoloiting their members, but I’m not sure how I’d find out about that.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#262

Post by UncleMeat » Mon, Feb 12, 2024, 4:53 PM UTC

pierat wrote: post #123

wahnfrieden wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which incident receives media coverage as it happens?

Given the breathless reporting of "MAJOR CHAIN STORE SHUTS DOWN SINGLE BUSINESS DUE TO EXTREME THEFT", yeah. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/as-retailers-close-stores-... https://www.npr.org/2023/09/28/1202264923/major-retailers-bl... https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/19/target-store-closures-theft-... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/target-closing-stores-2023-san-... https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/26/business/target-retail-t…

It gets even worse than just the media. A bunch of legislation has been proposed or passed specifically to target "organized retail theft." In Virginia, legislation upped the designation for "stealing several thousand dollars of stuff with other people" to the same felony category as stabbing somebody while jack shit is done to crack down on wage theft.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#263

Post by wahnfrieden » Mon, Feb 12, 2024, 4:53 PM UTC

themaninthedark wrote: post #229

lupire wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't see "US" and "Mexico" from space. Mexicans are US Americans human neighbors.

Out of curiosity, what would your response be if Putin said "I can't see Russia and Ukraine from space, I am just providing security support for my human neighbors"

Ones talking about asylum, you’re talking about bombing campaigns

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#264

Post by reaperman » Mon, Feb 12, 2024, 4:54 PM UTC

bena wrote: post #227

reaperman wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do have a "legal" and ethical right federally in the USA (some smaller jurisdictions have stronger rules but that's not typical). But perhaps you mean to argue they shouldn't have a legal right, or don't have a "moral" right. I have worked restaurants and believe that minimum wage should be meted out on a per-hour basis because of the way the current system mis-aligns incentives. The restaurant owner is encourag…

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Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#265

Post by rsynnott » Mon, Feb 12, 2024, 4:54 PM UTC

meltyness wrote: post #29

sixothree wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be as easy as going to the police.

It is, it's a state-level thing, and that serves as a check on companies that scale to be national or international. Makes lobbying over 50x more complicated. The fact that a UK publication is on about it should be a clear signal that the authors are being influenced by an international interest would like to simplify the process. Probably chipotle Here's a page that lists like, a third of the state agencies, I guess…

> The fact that a UK publication is on about it should be a clear signal that the authors are being influenced by an international interest would like to simplify the process.

The Guardian has had an office in the US to produce local content for over a decade, now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guardian_US

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#266

Post by vaidhy » Mon, Feb 12, 2024, 4:55 PM UTC

pitaj wrote: post #208

mrangle wrote: post #37

Slaving: Not paying for work. Internships: some may be legit, most are slave labor schemes with many being deeply institutionalized in systems such as healthcare and education. Lower than minimum wage with an expectation that tips will make up the difference (just be done with tipping, pay at least minimum wage, and raise food prices). Mistreatment

That is not the definition of slavery. Slavery is being forced to work.

I would amend that slavery is being forced to work for a single person/corporation with a massive penalty for trying to change it.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#267

Post by gadders » Mon, Feb 12, 2024, 4:55 PM UTC

screenothethird wrote: post #23

InitialLastName wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> some people are perfectly happy to be independent contractors. Literally nobody is denying that. The issue is that many companies are also happy to use the classification to their advantage when the roles don't meet the legal standard their society has put forth as the requirement for someone to be an independent contractor (largely e.g. genuine independence in their work).

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>>being an idiot

Have you been talking to my wife?

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#268

Post by ToucanLoucan » Mon, Feb 12, 2024, 4:57 PM UTC

Jensson wrote: post #221

uni_rule wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If this thing was an entirely different situation then the stakes would be different." Well, glad we got that part worked out.

It is the same situation, entity A didn't pay entity B the money they agreed to pay.

Even looking past the time aspect which you slipped in (rent late, wages unpaid are definitionally different: unpaid is not, by necessity, late, and late is not necessarily "never going to arrive") wages are the payment of labor performed and rent is the payment of use of private property. Rent-seeking is derided behavior (by economists!) for this exact reason: A landlord does not (in the vast, vast, vast majority of cases) add value to a property: they merely own a thing, and charge people who need access to it, to access it. It's the free-market version of wind-drag: you aren't contributing anything, you're just taking a slice of production you haven't earned because you own a thing that's necessary for the larger system to operate.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#269

Post by lostlogin » Mon, Feb 12, 2024, 4:57 PM UTC

phpisthebest wrote: post #225

BobaFloutist wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then they get mad that the teenagers they made a point of hiring are irresponsible, unreliable, and have limited experience working. You know, teenagers.

I started working at 16, at a walmart. I only called sick a handful of times, never was late, and did my job to the best of my ability. it is called work ethic. I started at $0.25 above minimum wage, as we given several raises, and position changes by the time I left at age 18, why because I was one of the most reliable teens they had, and they did not want me to go to another employer. Some parents instill work ethi…

> Some parents instill work ethic in their children even teens, sadly we do not have many good parents these days it seems like

It turns out that there is a lot more to what makes a person than just the behaviour of their parents.

Re: Billions stolen in wage theft from US workers

#270

Post by strictnein » Mon, Feb 12, 2024, 4:58 PM UTC

PenguinCoder wrote: post #69

darth_avocado wrote: post #43

People thinking wage theft only affects lower wage workers, let me tell you how tech companies commit wage theft: 1. Having annual components to wages (RSUs, bonuses), making you work all year and firing you just before they have to pay you. 2. Having no overtime for salaried employees 3. Having employees work extra responsibilities that are not part of the job description by promising promotions and then not giving…

The promise of salary work in America is such one sided bullcrap. Get paid the same amount of to get your work done no matter the time it takes. if it takes 6 hours or 12 hours, you'll get the same amount. But if you don't work at least 40hrs a week on salary, we're docking your pay. Oh but also, you don't get paid for any hours over 8 in a day. Salary!

> But if you don't work at least 40hrs a week on salary, we're docking your pay.

I've never encountered such a system in my 20+ years being paid a salary. What companies do this? Worked for two European firms (including one very large one) and two large American firms during that time. Is it something small companies try to do?