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Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

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Re: Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

#21

Post by ptero »

djbusby wrote: post #7

Lots of patent hate in the first few comments. If we take the position that an inventor should be able to try and get profit from their invention how can we protect that without patent system?

Limiting the time of the protection would go a long way towards its acceptance. With the speed of technology today, 3-5 years seems reasonable. Anything beyond this is an overkill. This also discourages early filing (which now causes to mostly stifle related exploration) and encourages filing when the technology is ready for commercialization.

I also view the goal of the patent system as benefiting a society by encouraging the people to innovate. While somewhat similar to the current goals (rewarding the inventors) it is subtly different because its success and failure is determined not by the fairness to each inventor but by its statistical impact on innovation. If it tends to encourage innovation, even if in a few corner cases the time limits are too short for the inventor to reap the full reward, so be it. If it tends to stifle innovation by focusing on fully defending every inventor it needs to be repealed. My 2c.

Re: Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

#22

Post by rakoo »

djbusby wrote: post #7

Lots of patent hate in the first few comments. If we take the position that an inventor should be able to try and get profit from their invention how can we protect that without patent system?

> If we take the position that an inventor should be able to try and get profit from their invention

The premise is flawed, the conclusion can only be wrong.

Patents are an invention by the bourgeoisie to extend their control of the production of anything and extract as much money from it, but to make it acceptable they have the play the image of the "lone inventor in their garage". This inventor doesn't exist. No invention ever came out of nowhere, based on nothing more than hard work and selfless involvement. Nothing would be achievable without the help of society, past and present, without cooperation, and to close that off is to go against the very reason we as a species survive. We need shared creation of art, of technologies, of ideas, because this helps everyone. Look at Volvo giving away their rights on the 3-point security belt, or the penicillin being openly distributed; to favor individual wealth over collective well-being is borderline criminal.

Patents do not serve individuals, the individuals are not business people. Patents only serve companies which by definition steal the production of its workers for private profits.

Patents do not allow creation; patents prevent creation. Look at the history of steam machines and how many people were involved in all the subtle, incremental improvements. It's not just one guy suddenly finding out everything from scratch. One of them put a patent on his invention and froze the development of the steam machine for decades before allowing it to continue.

Re: Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

#23

Post by Quenty »

Solvency wrote: post #5
tomschlick wrote: post #4

Software patents should not exist.

Ok I'll bite, why stop at software?

The point of the parent system is to prevent knowledge from being lost to humanity. It encourages disclosure on how unique and novel things work in return for a limited monopoly. If inventions were not patented then we can lose the ability to make them, which isn’t as insane sounding as you might expect.

Preserving this knowledge for the future of humanity is critical.

Re: Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

#24

Post by bmacho »

djbusby wrote: post #7

Lots of patent hate in the first few comments. If we take the position that an inventor should be able to try and get profit from their invention how can we protect that without patent system?

> If we take the position that an inventor should be able to try and get profit from their invention how can we protect that without patent system?

What about: inventors should be able to try and get profit from their invention like anyone else.

Re: Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

#25

Post by gnfargbl »

djbusby wrote: post #7

Lots of patent hate in the first few comments. If we take the position that an inventor should be able to try and get profit from their invention how can we protect that without patent system?

Software authors, like other authors, can protect their creations through copyright. That's as it should be.

Allowing patents on software is about as sensible as allowing JK Rowling to patent the concept of a storyline about a boy who was cursed at birth by an evil wizard, and must defeat said wizard in order to fulfil his destiny.

Re: Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

#26

Post by rakoo »

Quenty wrote: post #23
Solvency wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok I'll bite, why stop at software?

The point of the parent system is to prevent knowledge from being lost to humanity. It encourages disclosure on how unique and novel things work in return for a limited monopoly. If inventions were not patented then we can lose the ability to make them, which isn’t as insane sounding as you might expect. Preserving this knowledge for the future of humanity is critical.

This is absolutely not the point of the patent system, otherwise there would be no provision for a monopoly over the commercial manufacturing of the invention.

Don't be deluded, the patent system serves as a weapon for bigger companies to block competition. That is their only goal.

Re: Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

#27

Post by Angostura »

rakoo wrote: post #22
djbusby wrote: post #7

Lots of patent hate in the first few comments. If we take the position that an inventor should be able to try and get profit from their invention how can we protect that without patent system?

> If we take the position that an inventor should be able to try and get profit from their invention The premise is flawed, the conclusion can only be wrong. Patents are an invention by the bourgeoisie to extend their control of the production of anything and extract as much money from it, but to make it acceptable they have the play the image of the "lone inventor in their garage". This inventor doesn't exist. No in…

> No invention ever came out of nowhere, based on nothing more than hard work and selfless involvement

Straw man. No-one has suggested that the inventor invented something in a complete vacuum without support from society.

Re: Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

#28

Post by duped »

Quenty wrote: post #23
Solvency wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok I'll bite, why stop at software?

The point of the parent system is to prevent knowledge from being lost to humanity. It encourages disclosure on how unique and novel things work in return for a limited monopoly. If inventions were not patented then we can lose the ability to make them, which isn’t as insane sounding as you might expect. Preserving this knowledge for the future of humanity is critical.

If you ever do a patent survey, you'll quickly discover that patents aren't written to preserve knowledge or disclose inventions. They're written to disclose as little as possible (or disclose everything except the thing that matters) as fodder for a legal defense.

Re: Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

#29

Post by kemayo »

djbusby wrote: post #7

Lots of patent hate in the first few comments. If we take the position that an inventor should be able to try and get profit from their invention how can we protect that without patent system?

The myth of patents is that some inventor working in their garage comes up with a genius invention, patents it, and then can leverage that patent-granted period of exclusivity into a thriving business. Hard work and smarts translating directly into rewards!

This is, of course, a myth.

It's not impossible for that to happen, theoretically, but the way the patent system actually works these days is that large companies patent anything they ever think of regardless of actual novelty, holding on to vast piles of patents as weapons of strategic deterrence. The megacorps exist in a state of patent detente -- unless someone is particularly blatant about a violation, it's better not to sue another corp because they'll just countersue with their own patent hoard. Then you'll both be stuck in years of litigation, working to get each other's patents invalidated, unsure of who is going to come out of it with a remaining claim.

When the tiny independent inventor appears, however, they don't have any of that patent-hoard protection. So it's easy for a big company in a vaguely related industry to squash them if they want to. Or wait until there's enough money being made that it's worth showing up and demanding fees. Sure, the company's patents may well be bogus and unrelated, but the tiny inventor can't afford to spend the next five years litigating that.

Re: Cloudflare defeats patent troll Sable at trial

#30

Post by criddell »

arsome wrote: post #19
Solvency wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok I'll bite, why stop at software?

Software patents do not provide the benefits other patents do. Name a piece of software that would likely not have been written if it wasn't able to be patent protected. Now compare that with other industries like pharmaceuticals, textiles, chemical processes, etc. Software is different because it's more straight forward engineering than explorative science. If an implementation is obvious to anyone with the prerequi…

> Name a piece of software that would likely not have been written if it wasn't able to be patent protected.

That’s a fantastic argument against software patents. I can’t believe I’ve never thought about it in that way.

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