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The Empire Strikes Back First Draft by Leigh Brackett (1978) [pdf]

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Re: The Empire Strikes Back First Draft by Leigh Brackett (1978) [pdf]

#11

Post by SilasX »

saghm wrote: post #6
PotatoPancakes wrote: post #4

Look on page 117 of the PDF (the paper says 113): > Vader: You're very good, Luke. But I'm twenty years older and stronger than you in the use of the Force. You haven't a chance with me... any more than your father had. This draft was written before they came up with the idea that Vader could actually be Luke's father!

Honestly, what strikes me about this line isn't even that Vader isn't Luke's father, but how wordy he is. I imagine they didn't spend too much time on phrasing and instead just tried to capture the gist with the expectation of polishing later, but even with the James Earl Jones's trademark slow, menacing Vader drawl, this just feels like it would sound weirdly verbose coming from Vader, especially in the middle of a…

Yeah, it immediately stood out to me how the final film leans so much more toward “show, don’t tell”. Vader doesn’t have to tell you how powerful he is! He just quips “Impressive” and goes on give Luke a smackdown. “All too easy.”

Re: The Empire Strikes Back First Draft by Leigh Brackett (1978) [pdf]

#12

Post by Snild »

bluejekyll wrote: post #10
PotatoPancakes wrote: post #4

Look on page 117 of the PDF (the paper says 113): > Vader: You're very good, Luke. But I'm twenty years older and stronger than you in the use of the Force. You haven't a chance with me... any more than your father had. This draft was written before they came up with the idea that Vader could actually be Luke's father!

What was the relationship then? In a New Hope, it’s known that Anakin was Vader, right? And they knew Luke was Anakin’s his son. Obi wan mentions Anakin being corrupted by Vader. And the fight at the end, Vader now the master, etc. Was it really still a question of Vader and Anakin were different people until the second movie came out?

> In a New Hope, it’s known that Anakin was Vader, right?

I don't think it is. At least not that I can remember.

Re: The Empire Strikes Back First Draft by Leigh Brackett (1978) [pdf]

#13

Post by cryptoz »

PotatoPancakes wrote: post #4

Look on page 117 of the PDF (the paper says 113): > Vader: You're very good, Luke. But I'm twenty years older and stronger than you in the use of the Force. You haven't a chance with me... any more than your father had. This draft was written before they came up with the idea that Vader could actually be Luke's father!

I haven't read the script but, couldn't that be interpreted the same way it would be in the movies today? That is, the idea that Vader 'killed' Anakin by converting him to the dark side; Anakin is gone and now Vader exists - so different that the identity is different.

Re: The Empire Strikes Back First Draft by Leigh Brackett (1978) [pdf]

#14

Post by dudinax »

bluejekyll wrote: post #10
PotatoPancakes wrote: post #4

Look on page 117 of the PDF (the paper says 113): > Vader: You're very good, Luke. But I'm twenty years older and stronger than you in the use of the Force. You haven't a chance with me... any more than your father had. This draft was written before they came up with the idea that Vader could actually be Luke's father!

What was the relationship then? In a New Hope, it’s known that Anakin was Vader, right? And they knew Luke was Anakin’s his son. Obi wan mentions Anakin being corrupted by Vader. And the fight at the end, Vader now the master, etc. Was it really still a question of Vader and Anakin were different people until the second movie came out?

This script is good evidence they made up the connection part way through Empire. Also, if Lucas already had it in mind for Star Wars, I doubt he'd have Obiwan straight up lie about it.

Re: The Empire Strikes Back First Draft by Leigh Brackett (1978) [pdf]

#15

Post by canjobear »

bluejekyll wrote: post #10
PotatoPancakes wrote: post #4

Look on page 117 of the PDF (the paper says 113): > Vader: You're very good, Luke. But I'm twenty years older and stronger than you in the use of the Force. You haven't a chance with me... any more than your father had. This draft was written before they came up with the idea that Vader could actually be Luke's father!

What was the relationship then? In a New Hope, it’s known that Anakin was Vader, right? And they knew Luke was Anakin’s his son. Obi wan mentions Anakin being corrupted by Vader. And the fight at the end, Vader now the master, etc. Was it really still a question of Vader and Anakin were different people until the second movie came out?

Lucas only came up with the idea that Anakin = Vader after the original Star Wars was out, when he was revising the script for Empire. Before that we were supposed to take Ben Kenobi at face value when he said that Darth Vader betrayed and murdered Luke's father.

Re: The Empire Strikes Back First Draft by Leigh Brackett (1978) [pdf]

#16

Post by taejavu »

bluejekyll wrote: post #10
PotatoPancakes wrote: post #4

Look on page 117 of the PDF (the paper says 113): > Vader: You're very good, Luke. But I'm twenty years older and stronger than you in the use of the Force. You haven't a chance with me... any more than your father had. This draft was written before they came up with the idea that Vader could actually be Luke's father!

What was the relationship then? In a New Hope, it’s known that Anakin was Vader, right? And they knew Luke was Anakin’s his son. Obi wan mentions Anakin being corrupted by Vader. And the fight at the end, Vader now the master, etc. Was it really still a question of Vader and Anakin were different people until the second movie came out?

Yes, and I’m struggling to imagine why you think it is even implied that they could be the same person, from the first film alone. Could you explain further?

Re: The Empire Strikes Back First Draft by Leigh Brackett (1978) [pdf]

#18

Post by Modified3019 »

saghm wrote: post #6
PotatoPancakes wrote: post #4

Look on page 117 of the PDF (the paper says 113): > Vader: You're very good, Luke. But I'm twenty years older and stronger than you in the use of the Force. You haven't a chance with me... any more than your father had. This draft was written before they came up with the idea that Vader could actually be Luke's father!

Honestly, what strikes me about this line isn't even that Vader isn't Luke's father, but how wordy he is. I imagine they didn't spend too much time on phrasing and instead just tried to capture the gist with the expectation of polishing later, but even with the James Earl Jones's trademark slow, menacing Vader drawl, this just feels like it would sound weirdly verbose coming from Vader, especially in the middle of a…

You can experience a verbose Vader for real, thanks to Auralnauts bringing Zack Snyder’s vision to the Star Wars franchise:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J9X_FmCbrIA

Re: The Empire Strikes Back First Draft by Leigh Brackett (1978) [pdf]

#19

Post by JKCalhoun »

Warning, a kind of fucked up story:

I remember Sci-Fi conventions in the late 70's and there was this one character who was always around that gave off a hint of illegal activity. For example, he had plenty of 35mm trailers to sell at the convention that someone along the supply chain must have pinched from a local movie theater.

But I remember he claimed to have a script of, as I recall, the not-yet-released sequel to Star Wars. I think he wanted $25 or so for a copy of it. I read the first page but now don't remember what it conveyed. It was a typed thing and xeroxed like the linked document. It occurred to me pretty quickly though that the guy could just be passing along fan fiction (which I admit wasn't really a thing as far as I knew back then) and trying make cash off it. I mean even after the film came out he could claim the script must have been rejected....

A year or so later I read in the newspaper about him having been stabbed to death by a Star Wars fan who had befriended him — someone he had lead along with a whole string of lies like claiming he knew George Lucas and how he could pass along the kid's story ideas to him — things like that. The kid finally figured out he was being had and snapped.

The thing kind of freaked me out at the time but I had forgotten it until this xeroxed script just appeared on HN.

Re: The Empire Strikes Back First Draft by Leigh Brackett (1978) [pdf]

#20

Post by ethbr1 »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #19

Warning, a kind of fucked up story: I remember Sci-Fi conventions in the late 70's and there was this one character who was always around that gave off a hint of illegal activity. For example, he had plenty of 35mm trailers to sell at the convention that someone along the supply chain must have pinched from a local movie theater. But I remember he claimed to have a script of, as I recall, the not-yet-released sequel…

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