I started paying for Obsidian last month, it was on my annual cancel vs subscribe list [1], I've been happy using Obsidian for almost a year now and paying for Sync was a nice way to enhance my usage and support the team.
100% User-Supported
21–30 of 66 posts
Re: 100% User-Supported
#22If Obsidian went VC or public it would be enshittified in 5 years or less.
There is no guarantee that they wont do any of that in two weeks and since it is closed source you are basically forced to accept the enshittification or have to switch to another product. This is the reason I haven't tried Obsidian yet. I will never use another closed source note taking app again.
For portability and durability of your data I find that "File over app"[1] is more important than open source. These are all separate vectors:
- VC vs user-supported
- Files vs databases
- Open formats vs proprietary formats
- Open source vs closed source
- Extensible vs non-extensible
- Private vs privacy-invasive
An open source app can still be VC-backed, store its data in a proprietary format, have terrible APIs, and include telemetry.
Re: 100% User-Supported
#23I'd like to see some counterpoints. Which startups have been around for 15 years, took a bunch of VC money, but are as good to their users now as they've ever been? It's got to be a short list.
duolingo? Maybe airbnb?
That's all I've got.
Re: 100% User-Supported
#24If Obsidian went VC or public it would be enshittified in 5 years or less.
There is no guarantee that they wont do any of that in two weeks and since it is closed source you are basically forced to accept the enshittification or have to switch to another product. This is the reason I haven't tried Obsidian yet. I will never use another closed source note taking app again.
It’s interesting to me that a competitive open source platform hasn’t really shown up. I know it’s all markdown, but given that it’s closed source. Open source people love to make competitive open platforms.
Re: 100% User-Supported
#25I have heard of Obsidian before; is it some kind of documentation/notes thing? The stuff in the blog post sound great, so as long as the code is open and modifiable by users, I might take a look.
It is not open source. But because you are just editing markdown, you should not get locked in (however it does have some features and plugins that will not work anywhere else...)
Even when they step away from Markdown, like for example the canvas feature (https://obsidian.md/canvas), they make sure to build it on top of JSON files instead of inventing a more proprietary format.
Does any of the competition use it? Not that I'm aware of. If Obsidian disappeared tomorrow, could anyone reasonably replicate it? Yes.
If you don't want to pay for sync, you have other options. If you want to publish your notes, you have other options. Technically you need a subscription to use it for commercial purposes, but they have no way of enforcing that, plus there's a carve out for freelancers and for those like me working for NGOs.
The point I'm trying to make is that not only are they user-funded, but all of their revenue comes from the most optional subscriptions you're gonna find in a for-profit product.
Re: 100% User-Supported
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
> acreom is VC backed, and doesn’t implement any of the mentioned practices ...yet. In typical VC fashion it will totally respect the user forever (wink, wink) until they want to actually cash out. PS: would've been a nice touch if you disclosed acreom is yours.
you’re right, disclaimer: I am the founder not unless these values are provided by technical decisions over policies or promises. in acreom’s case, you own the software as well as your data and there’s not much we can do about it since we built it that way (local-first, offline with optional sync, e2ee, markdown without any acreom specific formatting)
Until the founder gets tired, replacement CEO gets hired, and with VC board encouragement, sells to PE or BigCo who switches the defaults 18mo later. Users get the choice of dead, CVE-riddled software or following the company's structure.
Conversely, with a less misaligned board & company structure, a friendly hire (e.g., internal) can take over and the board stays aligned. Ex: Mozilla. Protecting this is super hard... OpenAI has been quite a lesson in how fast things can change even with supposed governance structures: 100% reversal to closed code/weights/algorithms/data, $-first, & pro-military
Re: 100% User-Supported
#27Any idea why it's not open source tho?
Re: 100% User-Supported
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is no guarantee that they wont do any of that in two weeks and since it is closed source you are basically forced to accept the enshittification or have to switch to another product. This is the reason I haven't tried Obsidian yet. I will never use another closed source note taking app again.
For portability and durability of your data I find that "File over app"[1] is more important than open source. These are all separate vectors: - VC vs user-supported - Files vs databases - Open formats vs proprietary formats - Open source vs closed source - Extensible vs non-extensible - Private vs privacy-invasive An open source app can still be VC-backed, store its data in a proprietary format, have terrible APIs,…
Good point, I want both. The app should use files and be open source.
Re: 100% User-Supported
#29I'd like to see some counterpoints. Which startups have been around for 15 years, took a bunch of VC money, but are as good to their users now as they've ever been? It's got to be a short list.
Opposed to that, the list of VC-funded software I'm using and enjoying now, which is nonetheless bound to or already on the way to turning into piles of garbage and wasted potential, is pretty long and it took me not even a minute to put it together. The ones I care about mostly don't even try to take my money in any reasonable way.
I’ve felt that way in the past. Been productive with VC-backed software and couldn’t imagine using anything else.
Over the years though the case against it gets stronger and stronger. Evernote, Google reader, quora, and picasa are a few off the top of my head that I spent a lot of time with only for it to be abandoned or mutate into something unrecognizable.
The frequency and switching cost of services falling is high enough that now I see it is rational to only work with tools that have a clear part if the product ceases to exist.
Even when new things come out (eg chatGPT), I’m immediately looking for a more long-lasting alternative.
Re: 100% User-Supported
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
Being bootstrapped doesn’t somehow absolve founders of that. It’s a false sense of security. VC-backed companies eventually exit, yes, but bootstrapped companies often just… die. And, plenty of VC-backed companies do not commit the cardinal sins described in this article; lock-in, anti-user practices, and so on. I ran a VC-backed cybersecurity company for nearly 10 years, and we never engaged in any bad-for-the-user…
but I think the point is that by being "100% user supported”, the way to get rich is by getting more paying users by “making things people want” vs optimising a metric like “growth” in order to temporarily fool the next investor into overpaying at IPO or acquisition.
Sadly it's common to make things (not enough) people want and still run out of money.