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Grabby Aliens (2021)

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Re: Grabby Aliens (2021)

#101

Post by therockspush »

c22 wrote: post #61
GavinB wrote: post #10

This is a compelling theory, especially the implication that humans are early. I do wonder whether we should see the evidence of spheres of growing alien influence out in the stars, but instead we see a highly uniform universe in all directions. This would indicate a few possibilities: 1. Expanding alien civilizations are relatively low impact and don't collect all of the energy of stars in ways that are visible to o…

I like option 4. Perhaps some of the things we think are black holes are just grabby aliens.

Who knows what they've been grabbing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5qYH-Y3tQ4

Re: Grabby Aliens (2021)

#102

Post by pfdietz »

qnleigh wrote: post #94
MrScruff wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don't understand is how we reasonably quantify the probability of sentient life evolving. Sure the universe is very big, but the probability could be very small. All the discussions I've seen make the assumption that there's nothing unusual about life on Earth and given similar conditions elsewhere we would expect to see life, but how does one conclude that from a sample size of 1?

I guess the argument is something like 'if life is unlikely to evolve, then it is surprising to find ourselves existing so early in the history of the universe. If life is likely to evolve, then how do we explain being apparently alone?' and then the grabby aliens theory tries to answer the second question. I don't find the argument convincing though (per my other comment)

But we are not "so early" in the history of the universe. Something like 95% of all the stars that will ever be formed have already been formed. It's actually rather late in the day.

Re: Grabby Aliens (2021)

#103

Post by LadyCailin »

iraqmtpizza wrote: post #91
GavinB wrote: post #10

This is a compelling theory, especially the implication that humans are early. I do wonder whether we should see the evidence of spheres of growing alien influence out in the stars, but instead we see a highly uniform universe in all directions. This would indicate a few possibilities: 1. Expanding alien civilizations are relatively low impact and don't collect all of the energy of stars in ways that are visible to o…

All evidence says that humans stand alone in the galaxy. Everything else is cope.

That’s like looking only in the drawer, and saying, there is no evidence here that a cat lives in this house. When in fact the cat is just upstairs.

Re: Grabby Aliens (2021)

#104

Post by ben_w »

tsimionescu wrote: post #76
bqmjjx0kac wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm speaking outside my area, but dark matter is not really confirmed to even exist?

It's clearly confirmed that galaxies don't obey the known laws of quantum electrodynamics (QED) + general relativity (GR) if we assume they are made entirely of Standard Model particles. So, either QED is wrong (extremely unlikely) or GR is wrong (unlikely) or there is some matter that is not in the Standard Model (plausible). Dark matter corresponds to option 3 - and there are observations that conform some models o…

> So, either QED is wrong (extremely unlikely) or GR is wrong (unlikely)

Not my area, but I thought both were known to be incomplete? Q because it presumes a flat spacetime; R because it predicts the formation of singularities that the maths used to develop it assume don't exist?

Re: Grabby Aliens (2021)

#105

Post by ben_w »

cryptonector wrote: post #78
cwillu wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As stated in the paper: “The second of our three model parameters is the (assumed universal) speed at which grabby civilizations expand. Our model predicts that on average at grabby origin dates, a third to a half of the universe is within grabby-controlled volumes. So if the grabby expansion speed were low, many such volumes should appear quite large and noticeable in our sky. However, as noted by (Olson ’15; Olsen…

They couldn't be cohesive civilizations though, not unless their individual lifetimes were very long.

While true, a poor choice of name doesn't invalidate the logic.

I'd call them "lineages" for this reason, but I don't really expect the name to catch on.

Re: Grabby Aliens (2021)

#106

Post by ben_w »

Mistletoe wrote: post #71
XorNot wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather depends on other factors though: you can perfectly well run an interstellar empire with very long communication times and people going into suspended animation for transit. Control strategy simply has to adapt accordingly: i.e. a message probably comes with a fleet sufficient to ensure its obeyed. This was one of the ideas in the Doom novelizations: that the aliens had spent so long travelling that there was l…

Suspended animation may be as impossible as faster than light travel.

We've already got examples of small creatures in suspended animation.

I only wish Alcubierre-type drives were as well-developed as that.

Re: Grabby Aliens (2021)

#107

Post by ben_w »

qnleigh wrote: post #93

I'm confused by the argument here; is the argument that 'humanity could not arise once the universe has been taken over by grabby aliens, so a possible explanation of finding ourselves existing so early in the history of the universe is that this will be the only opportunity'? But if the universe will soon be filled with gajillions of grabby aliens, who's to say that we couldn't have been born as grabby aliens instea…

It's saying there's a good chance we'll be one of the grabby civilisations.

Or at least, it doesn't rule it out. Non-grabby aliens aren't visible in this model; given the distances, "grabby" is the only way to change the environment enough for current human tech to even notice something unusual.

Re: Grabby Aliens (2021)

#108

Post by Towaway69 »

My thinking is that the universe is full with life and communicating life. However communication is only possible with the right technology.

What is that technology? Technology that can only be created by a harmonious society working together to share ideas and combine ideas from everyone in a non competitive manner.

In that way the universe ensures peace and harmony ensures knowing that warring civilisation aren't able to leave their home base nor communicate with the universe.

It might sound slightly esoteric and spiritual but there many ways to societally live together in harmony with all humans.

After all not one individual can completely understand the universe, how can one nation hope to reach out to a non understandable universe.

Re: Grabby Aliens (2021)

#109

Post by ben_w »

mjevans wrote: post #96
lostemptations5 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evidence suggests Mars had oceans before and they just evaporated due to the thin atmosphere and non-existant magnetic field no? I'm not sure how that would get solved without some active technological solution by humans let's say.

I'm not sure which is more practical. Diverting enough material to replicate earth's natural magnetic core system on mars into the planet, or building an artificial system. The knowledge gained from attempting either is likely valuable.

Synthetic magnetic field is much easier than messing with the planet's core. Put a relatively small power plant in the Sun-Mars L1 point, and attach to a big conductive ring: https://phys.org/news/2017-03-nasa-magnetic-shield-mars-atmo...

Re: Grabby Aliens (2021)

#110

Post by ben_w »

distracted_boy wrote: post #87
fouc wrote: post #2

What I found most interesting about this model was the implication that humans are possibly one of the earliest sentient spacefaring species to have appeared so far. Which explains why we haven't seen any other signs of extraterrestrial intelligence yet.

We have seen signs, they were called UFOs but are called UAPs now, at least by the US government. People have tried coming forward over the years and talk about the subject, but was met with ridicule. I suggest googling David Grusch to read about the whistleblower from inside US intelligence services. Also search for “Navy Rear Admiral Tim Gallaudet ufo” and you’ll find additional comments. This is the greatest cover…

Such conspiracy theories amuse and confuse me in equal measure.

Do you also think North Korea, Cuba, and Iran either don't exist or want to be part of this coverup? Do you live in a world where there's really only one government and any indication to the contrary is mere kayfabe?

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