As someone used to doing everything with vanilla JS and having troubles with getting deep into any web frameworks (especially React), Svelte has been a godsend. I'm in love with the philosophy and approach and its natural combination of JS/CSS/HTML is, in my personal bubble, second to none. Most recent experiment was https://meoweler.com, but I'm now trying more complex projects and can't sing high enough praises. I sincerely hope the future of Svelte is bright.
Tenets
51–60 of 162 posts
Re: Tenets
#52Now I know why I dislike Svelte so much, I don't believe in its principles. Which is perfectly fine, a framework can't please everyone. HTML is not the mother language - It's actually pretty terrible for describing dynamic user interfaces. This is why JS solutions are so appealing. If HTML is so magical why do they need a fancy template language? Magical, not magic - I really don't want it to feel magical either. I l…
I'm not a big fan of HTML itself, but I do think svelte is right to focus on it for specifying UI. That's because HTML is the native language for describing UI in the browser. No matter what you use to specify UI, you have to understand how it translates to HTML to use it in the browser (and how HTML translates back, for debugging). The further your UI specification language deviates from HTML the harder that it. Of…
I hear you, but at the end of the day it isn't really targeting HTML. Not when it looks like this -
{#if answer === 42}
what was the question?
{/if}Re: Tenets
#53Can anyone fill me in on the backstory about lighthouse? What is it? Why is it a bad measure?
Re: Tenets
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
>HTML is not the mother language - It's actually pretty terrible for describing dynamic user interfaces. Compared to... what? XML? QML? XIB? There's literally nothing better than HTML for UI. Anything else is either buried in a mountain of proprietary nonsense, is platform specific, or is far inferior technically.
> There's literally nothing better than HTML for UI. Except... Literally everything else. Imperative Delphi code from early 2000s or indeed Turbo Pascal code from 1995 will run circles around HTML any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
My browser can't run Delphi or Turbo Pascal.
Re: Tenets
#55Ha, did not expect this to be on the front page of HN today! Some quick context: in January I was in London for a few days, and while I was there we had a Svelte Society London event. This document is a text version of a talk I gave there, which expands on some of these ideas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eswNQiq4T2w&t=5211s It's deliberately brief and vague in parts, because it's designed to spur conversation. It…
Hey rich, we love your work at my team mahn. Keep doing what you are doing.
Re: Tenets
#56Whenever I've tried Svelte I've honestly had a horrible experience, which surprises me somehow. It definitely failed on the "magical, not magic" thing. The exact workings of $ is still extremely confusing
It's funny, a lot of the Svelte fans made me think that it would be very simple and nice, and that React was much clunkier, confusing, and implicit, but my experience was the total opposite
Re: Tenets
#57I started using Svelte a couple of years ago and I love it. Very quickly it became the only client side solution I want to use.
Can't say the same about SvelteKit though. I've tried it a couple of times and it's just not fot me. It's really a tool built around a client side library and it shows (instead of being a backend framework).
Re: Tenets
#58As someone used to doing everything with vanilla JS and having troubles with getting deep into any web frameworks (especially React), Svelte has been a godsend. I'm in love with the philosophy and approach and its natural combination of JS/CSS/HTML is, in my personal bubble, second to none. Most recent experiment was https://meoweler.com , but I'm now trying more complex projects and can't sing high enough praises. I…
Off-topic, but Meoweler is a goldmine—thank you!
Re: Tenets
#59> We want Svelte to feel magical — we want you to feel like a wizard when you're writing Svelte code... So when we design things we need to think about the people who haven't read the docs in a while, if at all, and don't care about things like that. This means that things need to be intuitive, that we shouldn't need to worry about manual optimisations like memoisation, that we should have as few APIs as possible, an…
Vue benchmarks better than react anyway.
Re: Tenets
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There's literally nothing better than HTML for UI. Except... Literally everything else. Imperative Delphi code from early 2000s or indeed Turbo Pascal code from 1995 will run circles around HTML any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
My browser can't run Delphi or Turbo Pascal.
I was responding to this: "There's literally nothing better than HTML for UI."
In general that is false statement. In particular, when it relates to browsers, HTML is the local minimum of what can be done to describe the "UI".
Because HTML (well, DOM) is the only thing to describe the UI in the browser, and it's abhorrently awful. It can barely describe a page with static text and some images (and even then tools like Lighthouse will warn you that "you have too many elements on the page" if you dare go beyond 100 or so paragraphs). For the actual UI (yes, UI: complex layouts, interactions, dynamic parts, states, hundreds of complex interactable objects) HTML is unbelievably incredibly bad. Unfortunately that's the only thing you have running in the browser [1]
[1] Well, there's canvas (Google Docs switched to canvas because of limitations of the DOM etc.) and WebGL (pretty much every in-browser graphics program out there). But they suffer from having to implement literally everything from scratch.
Edit.
Just to show how inane "HTML is superior to everything is", here it is barfing at my static web site that only contains text and images (and a total of 9 Youtube and maps embeds): https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GF__tHjXgAAZGUA?format=jpg&name=...
Yes. It chokes on the insane number of .... 943 elements with a maximum depth of 8.
Apropos of nothing, here's a screenshot of a highly dynamic interface like Ableton Live with hundreds of dynamic elements https://cdm.link/app/uploads/2023/11/CleanShot-2023-11-15-at... that the "technical superior" HTML would not even be able to represent, much less render.
In reality it's very hard to find anything that is inferior to HTML when it comes to representing and rendering UIs.