Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? broker's fee is $15K

gothamist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 450 posts

Re: A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? broker's fee is $15K

#131

Post by bbor »

bombcar wrote: post #98
miki123211 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poland has a system where it's basically impossible to evict anybody if you rent under the standard rules. However, there exists a special type of contract which allows for quick and painless eviction, but where the tenant must provide proof that they have a place to stay at, either a deed to a property they own or a declaration from somebody who is willing to take them in. A lot of landlords insist on this type of c…

These kinds of things are side-effects of "tenant's rights" laws. Some may consider it the end-goal, to be fair - as eventually you'd drive landlords completely out of business. The problem is that this is antithetical to higher density, because you need landlords of some form if you have anything denser than a duplex. You can have condos perhaps, but not everyone can afford to get into one, or even wants to. And if…

> you need landlords of some form if you have anything denser than a duplex

Why? What value do they provide, other than having a bunch of money upfront? I’d argue there are many, many ways to fund building construction other than for-profit ownership

Re: A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? broker's fee is $15K

#132

Post by conductr »

no_wizard wrote: post #112
conductr wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in Texas, a state with pretty high property tax. We've also seen a ton of appreciation in recent years. Booming economy, transplants from other states, then the COVID factor. We also have a near free market on rent; I've been a landlord and not aware of any limitations. There are a couple limits on property taxes (namely a cap of 10% increase per year on "homesteads", and an Agriculture exemption for rural proper…

> I personally think it's awful to see elderly people getting priced out of a house they've owned for decades Housing being seen as this generational I own it forever thing that Americans have doesn’t also square with the American narrative of housing as an investment. It’s one or the other. If you want housing to be seen as something that more or less “always goes up” but you can’t be taxed in the increased value th…

> Another way to think about it: they’re selling at a premium well over they bought it for.

It's not a premium. It's what housing costs. If they take their "premium" and buy the next house, their tax bill is unchanged (more or less). They have to actually go find a house that is much cheaper so they can afford the tax bill.

More often than not, it causes them to move out of an area that has seen growth to an area that has not seen as much. This might be moving from Houston to a suburb of Houston, or moving from a suburb of Houston, to a small town 100 miles outside Houston.

The correct "Other way to think about it" is like telling someone this;

You bought this property when the neighborhood was worth nothing. You lived here for years when it was nothing. That might mean it was rural or crime ridden or whatever; but it was cheap and you could afford it. Good job sticking it out all those years and then letting "us" build it up around you. However, now that we've done that, we feel you are still a nothing if you can't afford the tax bill, so go find another rural/crime ridden area to live in. That's where you belong.

Re: A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? broker's fee is $15K

#133

Post by no_wizard »

conductr wrote: post #119
hotpotamus wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old people in Texas get their property taxes frozen I believe at 65. But honestly it might be better for them to downsize into something more appropriate and perhaps free up the larger houses for families. My mother has basically just turned my parents' house into an eBay warehouse full of junk that she intends to sell one day. I can't say that I have any big problem with that at the end of the day, but if you think…

> Old people in Texas get their property taxes frozen I believe at 65. True but if you're turning 65 after you're tax bill has grown 10% for over a decade as your transitioning to your fixed income years; it's not a good thing just to freeze the tax bill. You might not have time to earn and save enough to cover the value it gets frozen at. It does help soften the blow for many though. > But honestly it might be bette…

If you despise that thinking, then we need to regulate the housing market to discourage seeing housing as an investment as we see it today. Everyone expects, more or less, for real estate to climb in value but nobody wants to square that with these other emotional ideas attached to housing.

It either is an asset or it’s a commodity as far as the market goes. If you want generational housing and for housing to be generally affordable something has to give. Kill it as an asset class and you get what you’re looking for.

10 years is a long time in the housing market. Assets sitting for 10 years under utilized is another way to think about it.

These two ideas - that housing is an investment and that people shouldn’t be incurring tax burdens on them like this - do not square

Re: A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? broker's fee is $15K

#134

Post by Tijdreiziger »

lazide wrote: post #125
Dries007 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but as far as I'm aware, somebody with no credit history is basically indistinguishable from somebody with "good" history. As it should be. Why would you want to allow someone to be judged for _not_ having been in debt in the past? You can always ask for references if they rented before, that might help somewhat.

Because businesses need to make money to exist. Credit history == has successfully made other people money in the past, and if past behavior is indicative of future behavior, they likely will to someone else too.

If I pay a landlord rent every month, I make them money. I don’t need to take on any debt for that.

Re: A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? broker's fee is $15K

#135

Post by username332211 »

bombcar wrote: post #98
miki123211 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poland has a system where it's basically impossible to evict anybody if you rent under the standard rules. However, there exists a special type of contract which allows for quick and painless eviction, but where the tenant must provide proof that they have a place to stay at, either a deed to a property they own or a declaration from somebody who is willing to take them in. A lot of landlords insist on this type of c…

These kinds of things are side-effects of "tenant's rights" laws. Some may consider it the end-goal, to be fair - as eventually you'd drive landlords completely out of business. The problem is that this is antithetical to higher density, because you need landlords of some form if you have anything denser than a duplex. You can have condos perhaps, but not everyone can afford to get into one, or even wants to. And if…

> The problem is that this is antithetical to higher density, because you need landlords of some form if you have anything denser than a duplex.

Most of Europe somehow manages to live in individually-owned private apartments. Even if you rent, the landlord will rarely own the entire building.

Re: A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? broker's fee is $15K

#136

Post by flavius29663 »

bradlys wrote: post #88
flavius29663 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no one is fucking building anything Introducing rent control makes it even less likely to have new builds. Try to think like a millionaire that could potentially invest in real estate: would you buy a 2 million house not knowing that you can recoup that investment and also make a profit? Isn't it easier to just dump the money in an ETF and get 8% on the market? > you need it to prevent landlords from just extractin…

You cannot have housing be affordable and an investment. You need to decouple the two. Fundamentally these are in disagreement. If you believe that landlords should control the world then keep believing this idea that housing should also be an investment. I don’t think housing should be an investment. It is impossible for something to be a good investment and affordable. They go against one another.

> If you believe that landlords should control the world

This seems like such an emotional response. The landlords are also controlled by mortgages if they are small, or by boards of directors - and shareholders if they are large.

The landlords can control the rent for their units, that's it.

As to investment properties vs affordable ones, there can be some issue there, for example if you buy a house just to park the money somewhere, but you don't rent it out, you keep it empty. That kind of behavior can be really damaging. These are the only kind regulations I would introduce: 1. don't allow properties to sit empty - tax them heavily. And 2. also don't allow airbnb's in highly troubled cities. Unless you're literally sleeping in the same house with the guests, airbnb's shouldn't be allowed for individual housing units.

> I don’t think housing should be an investment

Let's run a thought experiment: Let's assume you're a retired small business owner that has 5 million dollars in the bank. You can A. built a house in your city and rent it out or B. put the money on the stock exchange.

Everything else staying equal, which of the options would create more housing units in your city?

Re: A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? broker's fee is $15K

#137

Post by gnfargbl »

_cenw wrote: post #80
vr46 wrote: post #13

The UK has completely abolished fees (I think) for tenants - I am a reluctant landlord - and I completely agree with that, the power asymmetry in finding housing is already bad enough without allowing blank-cheque negotiations. In my section of Germany, housing is even worse with rent caps and tenant rights, plus a lack of housing. Tenants are hard to move on, so landlords are painfully cautious about getting the rig…

Social housing in Germany is asinine. The government heavily co-finances new construction for a subset of flats being offered as affordable housing, but with a 30 year limit to these restrictions. It's a subsidy for the rich. You break even, and you get some very cheap real estate in 30 years. The government should've just done the construction itself. A lot of social housing is currently reaching that 30 year mark,…

That's pretty much how the private rental market worked in the UK, for a two or three decades at least. The game was to buy a house with a small deposit, break even on the running and loan costs, and benefit from the huge leverage in your investment as house prices rose.

Recently, the current government decided this game was unfair, and tightened taxes and housing regulations to the point where it only really makes sense now for large corporate landlords. Unsurprisingly this led to landlords exiting the market, and now there are too few rentals, leading to insane rents.

Re: A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? broker's fee is $15K

#138

Post by rcpt »

bombcar wrote: post #104
conductr wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in Texas, a state with pretty high property tax. We've also seen a ton of appreciation in recent years. Booming economy, transplants from other states, then the COVID factor. We also have a near free market on rent; I've been a landlord and not aware of any limitations. There are a couple limits on property taxes (namely a cap of 10% increase per year on "homesteads", and an Agriculture exemption for rural proper…

Property tax on owner-occupied residential property everywhere should have a "replace it with a lien against the property" option - some states have it. The exact situation you're referring to caused Prop 13 in CA, and something has to be done before something like that gets enacted.

California has the California Tax Postponement Program which predates Prop 13 and specifically protects poor old grandma.

Prop 13 wasn't passed as a law to help the unfortunate. It was anti tax hatred of the government. Jarvis wanted a "tax revolt" which is why all property in the state, even oil fields and golf courses, gets the tax break.

Re: A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? broker's fee is $15K

#139

Post by SnorkelTan »

zeroCalories wrote: post #53
ZoomerCretin wrote: post #27

For an $1,100/month apartment in NYC, a $15k fee is worth it, even if you have to take out debt for it.

For real. That's almost free by NYC standards. Even if I wanted to move out I would keep renting so that I could let family use it or something. Plus, if historical trends on rent stabilized units are anything to go by, it will only get better. Honestly, I don't mind brokers. I think many people feel wronged by them because of huge bills for little perceived work, but they're not exploiting any monopolies or regulati…

> Even if I wanted to move out I would keep renting so that I could let family use it or something

Example of why price controls on goods always seem to produce shortages of that good. Solving issues on the supply side is generally a better idea than fiddling with market prices.

Re: A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? broker's fee is $15K

#140

Post by rcpt »

conductr wrote: post #97
ethanbond wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Land Value Tax: Make it financially unfeasible to speculate, to withhold units from the market, and to withhold unused land from the market. Let prices freely fluctuate with the market. Increases in rent derived from externalities (i.e. Amazon HQ2 setting up shop nearby or a new subway station) go back into public coffers, while increases in rent derived from landlord actions (i.e. renovations, building bigger, bette…

I'm in Texas, a state with pretty high property tax. We've also seen a ton of appreciation in recent years. Booming economy, transplants from other states, then the COVID factor. We also have a near free market on rent; I've been a landlord and not aware of any limitations. There are a couple limits on property taxes (namely a cap of 10% increase per year on "homesteads", and an Agriculture exemption for rural proper…

> growing 10% a year for probably the last 15+ years

If I were 5x leveraged my net worth on a jackpot like that I'd probably cash out and move to an island to.

Post reply on HN