A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? broker's fee is $15K • Hacker News Board

Re: A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? broker's fee is $15K

#121

Post by rsstack » Sat, Feb 10, 2024, 5:00 PM UTC

Fripplebubby wrote: post #30

paxys wrote: post #18

The reason I live in a large managed building in NYC is that while such corporate housing may be bad, the broker cartel is infinitely worse. Every independent unit wanted at minimum $7-10K in broker fees, despite the fact that in most cases I didn’t even interact with the broker in any way. So what value are they adding to the system exactly?

The article explains that they are pre-vetting renters and handling showings and such. They add value for the landlord, not for you. But, they are also probably extracting the maximum amount of blood from you, because they can...

> handling showings

Sometimes, especially in peak season when they do open houses for a whole afternoon. Many times the broker told me to pick up a key from the doorman and let myself in and let them know if I was interested.

Re: A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? broker's fee is $15K

#122

Post by Tijdreiziger » Sat, Feb 10, 2024, 5:01 PM UTC

bombcar wrote: post #98

miki123211 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poland has a system where it's basically impossible to evict anybody if you rent under the standard rules. However, there exists a special type of contract which allows for quick and painless eviction, but where the tenant must provide proof that they have a place to stay at, either a deed to a property they own or a declaration from somebody who is willing to take them in. A lot of landlords insist on this type of c…

These kinds of things are side-effects of "tenant's rights" laws. Some may consider it the end-goal, to be fair - as eventually you'd drive landlords completely out of business. The problem is that this is antithetical to higher density, because you need landlords of some form if you have anything denser than a duplex. You can have condos perhaps, but not everyone can afford to get into one, or even wants to. And if…

The solution is strengthening the social housing sector. If anybody would be able to rent housing from the state, nobody would be dependent on private landlords (though private landlords could still fill niches like short-time rentals).

As it is though, the social housing sector is woefully underfunded, leading to sometimes decades-long waiting lists (at least where I live, in the Netherlands).

Re: A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? broker's fee is $15K

#123

Post by sofixa » Sat, Feb 10, 2024, 5:01 PM UTC

miki123211 wrote: post #83

vr46 wrote: post #13

The UK has completely abolished fees (I think) for tenants - I am a reluctant landlord - and I completely agree with that, the power asymmetry in finding housing is already bad enough without allowing blank-cheque negotiations. In my section of Germany, housing is even worse with rent caps and tenant rights, plus a lack of housing. Tenants are hard to move on, so landlords are painfully cautious about getting the rig…

Poland has a system where it's basically impossible to evict anybody if you rent under the standard rules. However, there exists a special type of contract which allows for quick and painless eviction, but where the tenant must provide proof that they have a place to stay at, either a deed to a property they own or a declaration from somebody who is willing to take them in. A lot of landlords insist on this type of c…

> Landlords basically have no other option, we don't really have a credit score system like the US does, so it's much harder to verify how trustworthy you are. There are agencies that can tell you if somebody's currently in debt or not, but as far as I'm aware, somebody with no credit history is basically indistinguishable from somebody with "good" history.

And that's actually good. What more could you possibly need to know other than a person's revenues and their debt to be able to decide if they're capable of paying rent? Why would you care if they've had or had not had debt previously? The American credit score system is dystopian (it can literally make or break your life because it's being abused by prospective landlords or employers) and broken (made by private entities who suffer no consequences in case of mistakes, be they leaking your data or mistaking identities).

Re: A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? broker's fee is $15K

#124

Post by anovikov » Sat, Feb 10, 2024, 5:01 PM UTC

lttlrck wrote: post #78

anovikov wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you can't have a working democracy, market economy, and affordable housing at same time. Something has to give.

I'm fascinated by this statement. Where does it come from?

Well, remove democracy and what people want on a local level (preserve and grow value of their owned homes by limiting development) will not matter - and developers will built out so many homes housing will become affordable. Like in Russia for example - housing is cheap there exactly because it is an industrialised nation without democracy.

Remove market economy and the Party will distribute housing as it sees fit, and you have affordable housing, like in the Soviet Union.

Otherwise, inevitably housing will cease to be accessible once a bit more than 50% of population is happy with their housing conditions - then they will vote for people who will help them build value of their house by locking out the underhoused minority.

I can't see a fix to this that won't undermine either democracy (by somehow making people's political choices matter less or not at all, openly or covertly, aka "Putin elections"), or market economy. Both of which sounds worse than just putting up with unaffordable housing.

Re: A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? broker's fee is $15K

#125

Post by lazide » Sat, Feb 10, 2024, 5:02 PM UTC

Dries007 wrote: post #100

miki123211 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poland has a system where it's basically impossible to evict anybody if you rent under the standard rules. However, there exists a special type of contract which allows for quick and painless eviction, but where the tenant must provide proof that they have a place to stay at, either a deed to a property they own or a declaration from somebody who is willing to take them in. A lot of landlords insist on this type of c…

> but as far as I'm aware, somebody with no credit history is basically indistinguishable from somebody with "good" history. As it should be. Why would you want to allow someone to be judged for _not_ having been in debt in the past? You can always ask for references if they rented before, that might help somewhat.

Because businesses need to make money to exist. Credit history == has successfully made other people money in the past, and if past behavior is indicative of future behavior, they likely will to someone else too.

Re: A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? broker's fee is $15K

#126

Post by snordgren » Sat, Feb 10, 2024, 5:02 PM UTC

scythe wrote: post #101

_cenw wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social housing in Germany is asinine. The government heavily co-finances new construction for a subset of flats being offered as affordable housing, but with a 30 year limit to these restrictions. It's a subsidy for the rich. You break even, and you get some very cheap real estate in 30 years. The government should've just done the construction itself. A lot of social housing is currently reaching that 30 year mark,…

Curiously, some places (notably San Francisco) in the United States have the opposite system: rents are unregulated for the first few decades of a building's life, and then annual increases are capped after that. This ensures that the older housing stays affordable for the people who live in it, but it allows prices to rise for new construction, which should in principle increase the amount of housing that gets built…

In Sweden new rentals are exempted from collectively bargained rents for 15 years, the idea being that the landlord should be able to recoup enough of their construction and capital costs in that time to make it attractive.

It’s a way to get around some of the issues that rent control causes, such as reducing construction.

Unfortunately, due to how our rental market works, it’s largely young people living in those more expensive apartments, which is terrible for birth rates and inter-generational equality.

Re: A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? broker's fee is $15K

#127

Post by morsch » Sat, Feb 10, 2024, 5:03 PM UTC

belter wrote: post #92

vr46 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hamburg. The previous tenants left a mess, the landlord put in a new kitchen for us, new fences around the boundary, new back patio tiles. Ventilation is a problem as extractor fans need replacing and I’ve replaced a bunch of electric switches and sockets, but no fun. Classmates with income only from the job centre are unable to find a place to live, although that’s hardly better anywhere. In London the rents are ast…

The landlord put in a new kitchen for you? When I lived in several different towns in Germany every single flat was rented without kitchen...I bought more than one and had to dismount the kitchen when leaving. One of German absurdities I don't miss... "Apartments don’t come with kitchens in Germany" - https://alisajordanwrites.com/2018/08/06/apartments-dont-com...

I agree that it's dumb to have to buy a new kitchen when moving in (and tear it down when moving out). In most cases, though, you talk to the next person that moves in and, depending on the quality of the kitchen and social factors, sell it to them or just give it away. That is, when it's not part of the lease, which does exist in Germany, even if it's not mandatory. Student housing, for example, is usually fully equipped.

Re: A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? broker's fee is $15K

#128

Post by sofixa » Sat, Feb 10, 2024, 5:03 PM UTC

no_wizard wrote: post #112

conductr wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in Texas, a state with pretty high property tax. We've also seen a ton of appreciation in recent years. Booming economy, transplants from other states, then the COVID factor. We also have a near free market on rent; I've been a landlord and not aware of any limitations. There are a couple limits on property taxes (namely a cap of 10% increase per year on "homesteads", and an Agriculture exemption for rural proper…

> I personally think it's awful to see elderly people getting priced out of a house they've owned for decades Housing being seen as this generational I own it forever thing that Americans have doesn’t also square with the American narrative of housing as an investment. It’s one or the other. If you want housing to be seen as something that more or less “always goes up” but you can’t be taxed in the increased value th…

> Another way to think about it: they’re selling at a premium well over they bought it for.

Not necessarily. The fact that they're getting priced out right now via taxes on the estimated value of the house doesn't mean they can sell the house at that value (being forced to sell) and that they can find a cheaper alternative that works as well for them. So they can be in for a net loss, all things considered.

Re: A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? broker's fee is $15K

#129

Post by lokar » Sat, Feb 10, 2024, 5:04 PM UTC

sofixa wrote: post #123

miki123211 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poland has a system where it's basically impossible to evict anybody if you rent under the standard rules. However, there exists a special type of contract which allows for quick and painless eviction, but where the tenant must provide proof that they have a place to stay at, either a deed to a property they own or a declaration from somebody who is willing to take them in. A lot of landlords insist on this type of c…

> Landlords basically have no other option, we don't really have a credit score system like the US does, so it's much harder to verify how trustworthy you are. There are agencies that can tell you if somebody's currently in debt or not, but as far as I'm aware, somebody with no credit history is basically indistinguishable from somebody with "good" history. And that's actually good. What more could you possibly need…

Some people have a long history of non payment, damages to property and evictions. If you can’t filter these people out you get an adverse selection kind of problem and everyone pays (one way or another)

Re: A rent-stabilized 1 bedroom apartment for $1,100 In NYC? broker's fee is $15K

#130

Post by hotpotamus » Sat, Feb 10, 2024, 5:04 PM UTC

conductr wrote: post #119

hotpotamus wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old people in Texas get their property taxes frozen I believe at 65. But honestly it might be better for them to downsize into something more appropriate and perhaps free up the larger houses for families. My mother has basically just turned my parents' house into an eBay warehouse full of junk that she intends to sell one day. I can't say that I have any big problem with that at the end of the day, but if you think…

> Old people in Texas get their property taxes frozen I believe at 65. True but if you're turning 65 after you're tax bill has grown 10% for over a decade as your transitioning to your fixed income years; it's not a good thing just to freeze the tax bill. You might not have time to earn and save enough to cover the value it gets frozen at. It does help soften the blow for many though. > But honestly it might be bette…

I live with them rent-free so it would probably go against my own interest as well to force them out via pricing.