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Russian troops use Starlink licensed and imported from Dubai

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Re: Russian troops use Starlink licensed and imported from Dubai

#251

Post by tjpnz »

_heimdall wrote: post #202
usrusr wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, listening in wouldn't work because you can always stack more encryption on top of the one the carrier might listen in to. But Starlink can't operate without exact knowledge of antenna locations for aiming the phased arrays (some sibling said that it can operate without GPS, but I read that as it's able to locate the antenna on its own after a crude signal handshake is done). But in a world where Musk/Starlink/s…

Is it fair to assume Musk and any state actors he could be working with don't have any way to decrypt Russian encryption techniques? My only point is they its interesting how quick many are to jump on this a narrative that Elon is evil, he works for or with the Russians, etc when there is actually a scenario that fits in which he is closer to playing a role akin to Allan Turing during WWII.

You're doing Turing a great disservice comparing him to Musk.

Re: Russian troops use Starlink licensed and imported from Dubai

#252

Post by somenameforme »

mopsi wrote: post #243
somenameforme wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tucker said nothing of the sort, nor did Putin claim it was Poland's fault they were invaded. Putin did, however, explain what Hitler's motivation was, The Free City of Danzig. [1] It was an area primarily populated with German peoples but 'granted' to Poland after WW1. Germany wanted it back, Poland refused, and eventually Germany ended up invading to get it back. This doesn't mean Germany's actions were right, nor…

> Putin did, however, explain what Hitler's motivation was, The Free City of Danzig. That was an excuse, not motivation. Hitler was motivated by theories of racial superiority, which he immediately began carrying out in Poland after invading the country and dividing it with the USSR, which had attacked Poland from the east in a supporting action (they even held a joint victory parade). Hitler sought to exterminate al…

In conflict, both sides try to demonize the other side, often using what are shown to be grossly exaggerated, and sometimes plainly false, claims. And it's not just "the other side" that does it. You should contrast what you read, when it sounds extreme, with what you know to be true outside of these claims. So for instance, Russia has more ethnicities than near to any other nation, with something like 185 different recognized ethnicities [1] living in the country.

And there's no marginalization or racial issues or whatever, at least nothing outside the norm. You can find countless ethnic minorities in various positions of power that aren't there just because of an invisible quota or whatever, but because all that matters is who can do the job best. For instance Sergei Shoigu [2] is a name you probably know, and he is ethnically Tuvan. The American far right who view Russia as something like a white Christian ethnostate are seen, by Russians, as complete idiots.

One can disagree with another, even be involved in a violent war, without trying to turn them into the Devil incarnate. Such fatuous and exaggerated claims also ultimately make light of when there are real issues, such as in another war we're supporting, which is nothing like this one.

[1] - https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/largest-ethnic-groups-in...

[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Shoigu

Re: Russian troops use Starlink licensed and imported from Dubai

#253

Post by _19qg »

somenameforme wrote: post #233
amarant wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to contradict you, but he did also say a few quite annoyingly incorrect things, like claiming it was the fault of Poland that they were invaded by Hitler. Also the point where Tucker reached the conclusion that "only an idiot would believe that Russia is an expansionist power" sounds a lot like slurping sounds around Putin's private parts to me(Russia has invaded at least 3 neighbouring countries in the last deca…

Tucker said nothing of the sort, nor did Putin claim it was Poland's fault they were invaded. Putin did, however, explain what Hitler's motivation was, The Free City of Danzig. [1] It was an area primarily populated with German peoples but 'granted' to Poland after WW1. Germany wanted it back, Poland refused, and eventually Germany ended up invading to get it back. This doesn't mean Germany's actions were right, nor…

Putin lied about the motivation of Germany and failed to mention, that the Soviet Union itself invaded parts of Poland. Hitler's motivation was to conquer and enslave East Europe. Getting Danzig back was not the motivation. It was only a stepping stone. The Soviet Union itself worked together with Nazi Germany and attacked & invaded Poland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov–Ribbentrop_Pact Putin should be convicted for war crimes. We learned nothing new from Putin, this stuff was all already explained by him. The right-wing "interviewer" from the US acted like a tool.

Re: Russian troops use Starlink licensed and imported from Dubai

#254

Post by lispm »

somenameforme wrote: post #252
mopsi wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Putin did, however, explain what Hitler's motivation was, The Free City of Danzig. That was an excuse, not motivation. Hitler was motivated by theories of racial superiority, which he immediately began carrying out in Poland after invading the country and dividing it with the USSR, which had attacked Poland from the east in a supporting action (they even held a joint victory parade). Hitler sought to exterminate al…

In conflict, both sides try to demonize the other side, often using what are shown to be grossly exaggerated, and sometimes plainly false, claims. And it's not just "the other side" that does it. You should contrast what you read, when it sounds extreme, with what you know to be true outside of these claims. So for instance, Russia has more ethnicities than near to any other nation, with something like 185 different…

Nonsense, the second world war history is excellently researched and Putin tells you only his propaganda views, which are just false. The Soviet Union collaborated with Germany on the invasion of Poland. In fact the Soviet Union invaded Poland from the East. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov–Ribbentrop_Pact This is not a "view", that's actual history.

Re: Russian troops use Starlink licensed and imported from Dubai

#255

Post by [deleted] »

lispm wrote: post #254
somenameforme wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In conflict, both sides try to demonize the other side, often using what are shown to be grossly exaggerated, and sometimes plainly false, claims. And it's not just "the other side" that does it. You should contrast what you read, when it sounds extreme, with what you know to be true outside of these claims. So for instance, Russia has more ethnicities than near to any other nation, with something like 185 different…

Nonsense, the second world war history is excellently researched and Putin tells you only his propaganda views, which are just false. The Soviet Union collaborated with Germany on the invasion of Poland. In fact the Soviet Union invaded Poland from the East. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov–Ribbentrop_Pact This is not a "view", that's actual history.

[deleted]

Re: Russian troops use Starlink licensed and imported from Dubai

#256

Post by yakshaving_jgt »

menacingly wrote: post #167
yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean "so"? If someone were also on the side of Adolf Hitler, would you take the same neutral position?

Well, in that case I think I'd 1) Not dilute the horrific tragedy of a century in pursuit of my histrionic agenda 2) Try and not overfit the clean simple morality of young adult fiction onto the real world

Histrionic? Over three quarters of a million people are dead from this war. The morality is indeed clean and simple here.

Trying to portray this as some deeply, historically complicated and nuanced situation is pretentious, and I'd hazard a guess that anyone taking this position likely has little familiarity with the war and why it's happening.

Re: Russian troops use Starlink licensed and imported from Dubai

#257

Post by mopsi »

somenameforme wrote: post #252
mopsi wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Putin did, however, explain what Hitler's motivation was, The Free City of Danzig. That was an excuse, not motivation. Hitler was motivated by theories of racial superiority, which he immediately began carrying out in Poland after invading the country and dividing it with the USSR, which had attacked Poland from the east in a supporting action (they even held a joint victory parade). Hitler sought to exterminate al…

In conflict, both sides try to demonize the other side, often using what are shown to be grossly exaggerated, and sometimes plainly false, claims. And it's not just "the other side" that does it. You should contrast what you read, when it sounds extreme, with what you know to be true outside of these claims. So for instance, Russia has more ethnicities than near to any other nation, with something like 185 different…

I see no reason to call any of what I quoted an exaggeration. These are very well documented episodes, which barely scratch the surface when it comes to German and Russian crimes committed in Eastern Europe. The described actions were merely opening shots of WWII. The worst was yet to come.

As to ethnic minorities in Russia:

> And there's no marginalization or racial issues or whatever, at least nothing outside the norm.

Complete lie. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification#In_Russian_Feder...

Re: Russian troops use Starlink licensed and imported from Dubai

#258

Post by lispm »

somenameforme wrote: post #184
actionfromafar wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way is the interview excellent?

It was not like an interview with a typical politician, which is perhaps not a surprise, but interesting nonetheless. He was happy to acknowledge when he didn't know things, gave numerous interesting insights in conversations he has had with other world leaders - while actively avoiding betraying their trust of confidence. He also displayed a rather encyclopedic knowledge of history which I found fascinating as a his…

That's a very strange, view given that the history was mostly wrong. Putin is not a typical politician, he is an ex- intelligence service ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Putin#KGB_career ) guy who got to power and made Russia his own authoritarian ruled country.

Re: Russian troops use Starlink licensed and imported from Dubai

#259

Post by somenameforme »

_19qg wrote: post #253
somenameforme wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tucker said nothing of the sort, nor did Putin claim it was Poland's fault they were invaded. Putin did, however, explain what Hitler's motivation was, The Free City of Danzig. [1] It was an area primarily populated with German peoples but 'granted' to Poland after WW1. Germany wanted it back, Poland refused, and eventually Germany ended up invading to get it back. This doesn't mean Germany's actions were right, nor…

Putin lied about the motivation of Germany and failed to mention, that the Soviet Union itself invaded parts of Poland. Hitler's motivation was to conquer and enslave East Europe. Getting Danzig back was not the motivation. It was only a stepping stone. The Soviet Union itself worked together with Nazi Germany and attacked & invaded Poland. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland and https://en.wikipe…

You might want to watch the interview. In that section Putin obviously mentioned that the USSR also invaded Poland. That's when Western Ukraine, which had been part of Poland, came back under 'Soviet' control! Which is, again, a rather critical part of relevant contemporary history. As Wiki puts it [1]:

---

"The response of non-ethnic Poles to the situation caused considerable complications. Many Ukrainians, Belarusians and Jews welcomed the invading troops.[100] Local Communists gathered people to welcome the Red Army troops in the traditional Slavic way by presenting bread and salt in the eastern suburb of Brest. A sort of triumphal arch on two poles, decked with spruce branches and flowers was fashioned for this occasion. A slogan in Russian on a long red banner, glorifying the USSR and welcoming the Red Army, crowned the arch.[101] The event was recorded by Lev Mekhlis, who reported to Stalin that the people of the West Ukraine welcomed the Soviet troops "like true liberators".[102] The Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists rebelled against Polish rule and Communist partisans stirred up local revolts, such as in Skidel.[1]".

---

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland#Dome...

Re: Russian troops use Starlink licensed and imported from Dubai

#260

Post by somenameforme »

mopsi wrote: post #257
somenameforme wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In conflict, both sides try to demonize the other side, often using what are shown to be grossly exaggerated, and sometimes plainly false, claims. And it's not just "the other side" that does it. You should contrast what you read, when it sounds extreme, with what you know to be true outside of these claims. So for instance, Russia has more ethnicities than near to any other nation, with something like 185 different…

I see no reason to call any of what I quoted an exaggeration. These are very well documented episodes, which barely scratch the surface when it comes to German and Russian crimes committed in Eastern Europe. The described actions were merely opening shots of WWII. The worst was yet to come. As to ethnic minorities in Russia: > And there's no marginalization or racial issues or whatever, at least nothing outside the n…

"On 19 June 2018, the Russian State Duma adopted a bill that made education in all languages but Russian optional, overruling previous laws by ethnic autonomies, and reducing instruction in minority languages to only two hours a week.[48][49][50] This bill has been likened by some commentators, such as in Foreign Affairs, to the policy of Russification.[48]"

This is not really what I would call ethnic strife. I do agree that language is a big part of ethnic identity, but such a law obviously does not prevent people from using or learning their ethnic language, and people being unable to communicate in a common tongue is likely to lead to real ethnic strife within a region. To me, the ideal of a multi-ethnic nation would be one where people have a shared common identity first, yet also don't entirely relinquish their own unique distinctions. Like I think in America one of the reasons there's such an increasingly absurd division in society is that we've lost any sort of shared collective identity.

Out of curiosity, would you actually even prefer the opposite of what is described in the page you linked to? If there happens to be an ethnic minority that is a majority in some region, should that region be able to determine that education, and so on, should be in the language of the local ethnic group?

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