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Fedora Atomic Desktops

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Re: Fedora Atomic Desktops

#91

Post by hollerith »

exe34 wrote: post #85
hollerith wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fedora atomic desktops have that property, too, without the wasteful property I just described.

Yes, there is a garbage collector to get rid of the old stuff you don't need anymore!

The existence of the garbage collector does not negate the wastefulness of updating every package on the system just because the hash of the C library has changed: even if all the old versions of the packages get garbage collected soon enough, it still wastes network and storage bandwidth to download all the new packages into /nix/store/.

NixOS has some good ideas, but also some seemingly boneheaded or impractical ones.

Re: Fedora Atomic Desktops

#92

Post by sohkamyung »

byproxy wrote: post #78
latentcall wrote: post #76

I use Fedora KDE as my laptop distro and have been interested in Silverblue/immutable versions. However I am not a developer so I’m not sure if it would offer any real benefit to my use case. Mostly use my laptop for web browsing and file transfers to my NAS. I’ve seen people say that immutable is the future of Linux, can someone explain that if they can? Does that mean one day all versions of Fedora will be immutabl…

In my limited experience, I'd say the immutable spins are even better for non-developers. Getting developer tooling going in Silverblue was enough of a hassle for me to disregard it, for the time being.

I have a SDK that I need to git clone from a repository, and then run a script file from the SDK to fetch the actual tools for my build environment.

Am I right in saying that kind of development environment would be hard to use and maintain in Silverblue?

Re: Fedora Atomic Desktops

#93

Post by curt15 »

jcastro wrote: post #82
discardedrefuse wrote: post #72

Questions for Silverblue / Atomic Users: I tried Silverblue a couple years ago and found myself rpm-ostree layering some basic tools like Fish shell and Mosh. Is layering still the preferred method for installing these types of tools or do you have "generic" container (made with toolbox/distrobox) that you jump into for generic shell work in like ssh'ing around and file management? Also, how do you handle things like…

`/usr/local` is writeable so no change there, that should work fine. I keep a container as my "day to day" linux and just have my terminal autolaunch into mine. You can use any distro's container for this so it's personal preference. I'm using Prompt, it's a new terminal designed to make the toolbox/distrobox flow much nicer: https://gitlab.gnome.org/chergert/prompt It's still relatively new so it isn't on flathub ye…

How do you deal with the lack of systemd in the container? Where do you put software that ship systemd unit files?

Re: Fedora Atomic Desktops

#94

Post by NewJazz »

detuur wrote: post #77
lillecarl wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That looks like something I wouldn't wanna use, all imperative

Same. I can't be the only one who feels that Nix is doing the right thing the wrong way. The right thing being reproducible, declarative, composable environments; the wrong thing being its language and tooling. Too often I feel like serious Nix users spend a distressing amount of time manually doing package manager tasks, so the way forward is to stop doing exactly that. Going back to imperative composition is a step…

FWIW I am starting to use home manager on my new macOS workstation, and I haven't had to dig too deep into Nix, nixpkgs, or NixOS.

I might hit limits soon as I rice my neovim install.

Re: Fedora Atomic Desktops

#95

Post by iimblack »

detuur wrote: post #77
lillecarl wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That looks like something I wouldn't wanna use, all imperative

Same. I can't be the only one who feels that Nix is doing the right thing the wrong way. The right thing being reproducible, declarative, composable environments; the wrong thing being its language and tooling. Too often I feel like serious Nix users spend a distressing amount of time manually doing package manager tasks, so the way forward is to stop doing exactly that. Going back to imperative composition is a step…

I wish guix was a little more mainstream.

Re: Fedora Atomic Desktops

#96

Post by soraminazuki »

detuur wrote: post #77
lillecarl wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That looks like something I wouldn't wanna use, all imperative

Same. I can't be the only one who feels that Nix is doing the right thing the wrong way. The right thing being reproducible, declarative, composable environments; the wrong thing being its language and tooling. Too often I feel like serious Nix users spend a distressing amount of time manually doing package manager tasks, so the way forward is to stop doing exactly that. Going back to imperative composition is a step…

The language is just JSON with functions. It's actually so nice to write configurations in that I wish it was more easier to use as a standalone thing.

Re: Fedora Atomic Desktops

#97

Post by darthrupert »

throwaway8481 wrote: post #5
exe34 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> immutable is the future of Linux Or indeed, the past. Happy nixos user since ~2016 here.

I liked Nix, because it worked very well to reproduce "the same system" every time. However, it became unmanageable and a huge time sink to constantly remake how I scripted together my nix flakes per the current/modern way of doing that. And then finding a repository of how someone else managed this on Github and rewriting my configuration again. Nix ultimately made me feel like I was running Gentoo. Excellent build…

I'm using nixos and I never really needed to "learn the language". I used the installer, which gave me sensible defaults, and now I just dump more and more stuff to my configuration.nix as I need it.

Their website contains plenty of examples to copy/paste and since the distro is already prett old, chatgpt can easily help too.

Ok so perhaps my config isn't the prettiest but who cares. It works and it's a record of what my system is.

Re: Fedora Atomic Desktops

#98

Post by darthrupert »

cma256 wrote: post #4
exe34 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> immutable is the future of Linux Or indeed, the past. Happy nixos user since ~2016 here.

I am also a nixos enjoyer but I have mixed feelings around the fact that I still don't really understand the configuration language. I'm happy in the sense that its simple enough that I can install programs and do all the other usual desktop stuff with minimal knowledge. But I'm unhappy in the sense that when I started with nixos I wanted to replace docker and docker-compose. I still haven't accomplished that. But al…

Generally speaking, you should never learn a language. You should use a language and let learning happen.

Re: Fedora Atomic Desktops

#99

Post by exe34 »

hollerith wrote: post #91
exe34 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, there is a garbage collector to get rid of the old stuff you don't need anymore!

The existence of the garbage collector does not negate the wastefulness of updating every package on the system just because the hash of the C library has changed: even if all the old versions of the packages get garbage collected soon enough, it still wastes network and storage bandwidth to download all the new packages into /nix/store/. NixOS has some good ideas, but also some seemingly boneheaded or impractical on…

This is what allows you to have multiple versions of something and all its dependencies installed and not conflict with each other!
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