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As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

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Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#351

Post by justin66 »

JohnBooty wrote: post #314
justin66 wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh. The USN is prepared to deal with speedboats piloted by suicide bombers. Does the jetski drone test ship security in a way that those do not?

Yeah, I'd sure think so. - A peer/neer-peer adversary can presumably throw a very large number of simultaneous drones at a USN vessel. I don't know how feasible it is rustle up 10 or 100 reliable simultaneous human suicide bombers. - The jet ski drones can surely be physically smaller than a speedboat that needs to hold a human - The jet skis can trade some of that size back and armor themselves against CIWS etc in w…

I looked into these a little more and the main thing I took away from it was, given their size and payload these aren't really "jet skis," even though the Ukrainians are sometimes naming them such. They are definitely formidable.

I don't think I'd be so worried about them surviving hits from the CIWS. On the open ocean I'd be worried about the possibility of encountering so many drones that the CIWS runs out of ammunition. In a port, I'd be worried about the practicality of using the CIWS at all, but I think the Navy can adapt.

The main thing is that the Navy were sort of deemphasizing stuff like the Phalanx on their recent ship designs, and this is the second time the past couple of weeks that I've read something suggesting they'll probably need to reverse that trend.

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#352

Post by Animats »

avmich wrote: post #290
jalapenos wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grounds not going to level itself now is it

I somehow doubt Israel uses a lot of 155 mm artillery shells per day at the moment.

Not only is Israel using them, Israel is trying to get the US to pay for them.[1]

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/11/13/...

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#353

Post by hackandthink »

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #295
hackandthink wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kozyrev statements are interesting, it is a tragedy that he failed and that the revanchists won. But Ukraine's und USA's way to deal with the revanchists (full confrontation) was reckless and stupid.

I wonder what you mean by "full confrontation"? Not rolling over and surrendering meekly? Ukraine is a sovereign state, it won't be neutered and turned into Russia's client state. If it takes "full confrontation" to do so, what other choice is there?

I mean the Maidan coup/revolution, not implementing Minsk 2, the shelling of cities in eastern Ukraine and the NATO partnership program.

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#354

Post by golergka »

triceratops wrote: post #161
golergka wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> by the same intellectual framework that allowed them to dominate the rest of the world People consisted other nations and ethnicities subhuman as long as they existed. Europe was, AFAIK, the first place on Earth that (1) considered subjugated people equal before the law (if they converted), (2) banned slavery and (3) imposed slavery ban on other nations.

> considered subjugated people equal before the law (if they converted) The Mongols and the ancient Persians didn't even make anyone convert. > banned slavery If you don't count all the colonies... > imposed slavery ban on other nations It is a very admirable thing to do, but who else could do it? They had the most powerful militaries in that era.

> If you don't count all the colonies...

Colonies are exactly what I'm talking about.

> It is a very admirable thing to do, but who else could do it? They had the most powerful militaries in that era.

Nobody else even wanted to.

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#355

Post by _xnmw »

mrguyorama wrote: post #324
_xnmw wrote: post #276

None of this explains HOW is it that the Russians are able to produce artillery shells at 7 times the rate of the entire Western world, while being sanctioned? If they can do it, why can't we? [1] https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-ammunition-manufactur...

Putin doesn't have to convince the manufacturers that this will be a long term profitable endeavor for their business. It doesn't matter to Putin if a company "overinvests" because the company is not a separate entity. If the US wants that kind of control we have the Defense Production Act to force businesses to build up capacity. It's like how during the pandemic, pretty much nobody invested in increased toilet pape…

I don't think this explains it. As the original article said, The DOD offers manufacturers 15-year contracts to guarantee profitability and that still isn't enough to ramp up capacity fast enough, or even meet demand on a multi-year timeline. I think the problem may lie in a serious deficit of manufacturing capability / expertise in the US.

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#356

Post by khokhol »

hackandthink wrote: post #353
kspacewalk2 wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what you mean by "full confrontation"? Not rolling over and surrendering meekly? Ukraine is a sovereign state, it won't be neutered and turned into Russia's client state. If it takes "full confrontation" to do so, what other choice is there?

I mean the Maidan coup/revolution, not implementing Minsk 2, the shelling of cities in eastern Ukraine and the NATO partnership program.

Which shelling events, specifically, are you referring to?

Locations and dates, please.

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#357

Post by triceratops »

golergka wrote: post #354
triceratops wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> considered subjugated people equal before the law (if they converted) The Mongols and the ancient Persians didn't even make anyone convert. > banned slavery If you don't count all the colonies... > imposed slavery ban on other nations It is a very admirable thing to do, but who else could do it? They had the most powerful militaries in that era.

> If you don't count all the colonies... Colonies are exactly what I'm talking about. > It is a very admirable thing to do, but who else could do it? They had the most powerful militaries in that era. Nobody else even wanted to.

> Colonies are exactly what I'm talking about.

Tell me more about how slavery was outlawed in Haiti - especially during the French Revolution with its "liberté, égalité, fraternité". Tell me about Belgian Congo. Tell me about the close relative of slavery, indentured servitude, in the British Empire.

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#358

Post by hackandthink »

khokhol wrote: post #356
hackandthink wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean the Maidan coup/revolution, not implementing Minsk 2, the shelling of cities in eastern Ukraine and the NATO partnership program.

Which shelling events, specifically, are you referring to? Locations and dates, please.

"CIVILIAN CASUALTIES IN THE CONFLICT-AFFECTED REGIONS OF EASTERN UKRAINE"

https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/f/b/469734.pdf

"Out of the total 946 civilian casualties confirmed by the Mission, shelling and fire from small arms and light weapons (SALW) accounted for 625 casualties (77 killed and 548 injured). More than 85 per cent of these casualties occurred in Donetsk region."

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#359

Post by khokhol »

hackandthink wrote: post #358
khokhol wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which shelling events, specifically, are you referring to? Locations and dates, please.

"CIVILIAN CASUALTIES IN THE CONFLICT-AFFECTED REGIONS OF EASTERN UKRAINE" https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/f/b/469734.pdf "Out of the total 946 civilian casualties confirmed by the Mission, shelling and fire from small arms and light weapons (SALW) accounted for 625 casualties (77 killed and 548 injured). More than 85 per cent of these casualties occurred in Donetsk region."

We know about the report. How do its contents establish causus bellum?

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#360

Post by hackandthink »

khokhol wrote: post #359
hackandthink wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"CIVILIAN CASUALTIES IN THE CONFLICT-AFFECTED REGIONS OF EASTERN UKRAINE" https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/f/b/469734.pdf "Out of the total 946 civilian casualties confirmed by the Mission, shelling and fire from small arms and light weapons (SALW) accounted for 625 casualties (77 killed and 548 injured). More than 85 per cent of these casualties occurred in Donetsk region."

We know about the report. How do its contents establish causus bellum?

Since Grozny, Putin has been a brutal war criminal for me. For me, nothing justifies this war.

It is a political question of how to deal with Russia's claims to power in Ukraine or the Caucasus. Georgia was smarter in my opinion. Ukrainian nationalists and their neoconservative supporters from the USA were less wise.

There should be a political discussion.

https://www.rnd.de/politik/krieg-in-der-ukraine-botschafter-...

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