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Just 137 crypto miners use 2.3% of total U.S. power

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Re: Just 137 crypto miners use 2.3% of total U.S. power

#171

Post by Nullabillity »

digging wrote: post #57

I'm not a crypto proponent per se, but I do feel the need to be reasonable about it, and this reads like pure emotional anti-cryptocurrency sentiment. (edit: while I still can, I'm going to jump in and repeat that I'm criticizing this as a bad article which isn't saying anything very meaningful on its own. Thanks everyone for doing the author's work for them and gathering more data. I won't be upset if it's proven th…

Renewable energy burned on cryptocurrency mining is still displacing renewable energy that could have been burned on something else.

Re: Just 137 crypto miners use 2.3% of total U.S. power

#172

Post by tibbon »

PretzelPirate wrote: post #124
mjburgess wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "security" of btc cryptocurrency is proportional to how much energy it wastes; that's radically different than the banking system. The more billions it costs to run bitcoin, the more it costs to 51% attack it. If you can outwaste energy, you can hijack the system. It would be useful it some state, eg., russia or china, would just cut off networks and forge bitcoin network traffic -- and hence bring the whole thin…

> The "security" of any cryptocurrency is proportional to how much energy it wastes This only applies to Proof of Work blockchain.

Which is what Bitcoin uses, and it is one of the largest and most commonly used cryptocurrencies out there.

Re: Just 137 crypto miners use 2.3% of total U.S. power

#173

Post by realreality »

jgilias wrote: post #103

The whole idea that you can sort energy usage into useful for society or not buckets is pretty ridiculous. Ok, Bitcoin bad. What about video games? Netflix? Porn? The very idea of sorting energy use like that is a very slippery slope. We have markets for a reason. They help us determine how the aggregated society values one or another thing without relying on value judgment.

> Ok, Bitcoin bad. What about video games? Netflix? Porn?

Yes, they're all bad. Markets are no substitute for morality. And if the market properly accounted for environmental damage, all of those uses of energy would be priced out of existence.

Re: Just 137 crypto miners use 2.3% of total U.S. power

#174

Post by JoeAltmaier »

lurking15 wrote: post #106
malermeister wrote: post #10

Ban it already. We're in a global energy and climate crisis. Stop wasting it for make-believe computer money.

it's like people can't understand it was engineered to be un-killable

On this scale? Easily detected and killed. Just check their power bill.

It has gotten completely out of hand. What was intended to be run on personal computers has become a juggernaut of rampant egregious resource consumption.

Re: Just 137 crypto miners use 2.3% of total U.S. power

#175

Post by hk__2 »

fromMars wrote: post #70

This is why I am not a fan of crypto. It's environmental impact is disastrous in its current form.

> This is why I am not a fan of crypto. It's environmental impact is disastrous in its current form.

*Bitcoin, not crypto. Ethereum doesn’t work like that.

Re: Just 137 crypto miners use 2.3% of total U.S. power

#176

Post by mrguyorama »

malermeister wrote: post #43
Hash-Basher wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A global, decentralized, censorship-resistant monetary asset is not of value to people?

No. It's not. Censorship-resistant is just another word for fraud- and crime enabling. It's a negative attribute, not a positive one.

This. Censorship resistance === Cannot undo fraud. A money system that cannot claw back ill-gotten gains is NOT "giving power to the users", but rather giving power to the con-men! Worse, fraud is such a huge return on investment that any system that enables it such as bitcoin does inevitably will have a market driven by fraud, because it easily out-competes the more legitimate business.

Bitcoin isn't full of fraud because "it's hard to track", or "there's nothing better to do" or "because it's new/unregulated"

Bitcoin is full of fraud and only fraud because a system that doesn't allow you to take back transactions unilaterally makes legitimate business HARDER than fraud, and for less return.

The other main "easy fraud" monetary system is gift cards, and they have to expend enormous effort and money on anti-fraud measures and just eating losses so users don't constantly have their money stolen. Crypto doesn't even have that, and in fact, literally cannot have that, because there is no empowered entity to do so.

Re: Just 137 crypto miners use 2.3% of total U.S. power

#177

Post by meetmyalias »

digging wrote: post #57

I'm not a crypto proponent per se, but I do feel the need to be reasonable about it, and this reads like pure emotional anti-cryptocurrency sentiment. (edit: while I still can, I'm going to jump in and repeat that I'm criticizing this as a bad article which isn't saying anything very meaningful on its own. Thanks everyone for doing the author's work for them and gathering more data. I won't be upset if it's proven th…

I’m no expert but I feel compelled to address your points:

1) “No comparison to the banking industry made” - sure, but the banking industry serves the entire world’s financial system, handling billions of transactions a second, while bitcoins transactions take anywhere from 30 minutes to two hours and process, like, 7 transactions a second. There is no reality we live in now where crypto transacts faster, more cheaply, than our current financial infrastructure.

2. Even if the it’s something g much lower, like .5%, point 1 above doesn’t absolve crypto from its share of energy expense for comparatively little work.

3. Again, splitting hairs and taking cover behind technicalities and specific figures doesn’t change the wider picture that crypto is insanely inefficient at what it’s trying to do compared to the financial systems it want to replace. I guess it’s clear I think it IS a waste of energy.

4. Where do you think the lions share of energy generation to feed crypto mining comes from? Even if it was purely renewable energy sources the gross inefficiency of crypto is still notable given its goals. There are better systems to do it.

Re: Just 137 crypto miners use 2.3% of total U.S. power

#178

Post by [deleted] »

digging wrote: post #57

I'm not a crypto proponent per se, but I do feel the need to be reasonable about it, and this reads like pure emotional anti-cryptocurrency sentiment. (edit: while I still can, I'm going to jump in and repeat that I'm criticizing this as a bad article which isn't saying anything very meaningful on its own. Thanks everyone for doing the author's work for them and gathering more data. I won't be upset if it's proven th…

[deleted]

Re: Just 137 crypto miners use 2.3% of total U.S. power

#179

Post by digging »

303uru wrote: post #160
digging wrote: post #57

I'm not a crypto proponent per se, but I do feel the need to be reasonable about it, and this reads like pure emotional anti-cryptocurrency sentiment. (edit: while I still can, I'm going to jump in and repeat that I'm criticizing this as a bad article which isn't saying anything very meaningful on its own. Thanks everyone for doing the author's work for them and gathering more data. I won't be upset if it's proven th…

You're going to compare the entire banking system, which services essentially every American to this complete waste of time and resources which services a vanishingly small number of people? >The point is the amount of crypto being mined. Is it? According to who? You? What's the utility of crypto? I've yet to see any materialization other than casino and funding terrorism.

> Is it?

Yes, because cryptocurrency is the thing we're measuring. The number of miners is meaningless in this conversation. It would be like talking about how many companies manufacture wind turbine blades.

Re: Just 137 crypto miners use 2.3% of total U.S. power

#180

Post by stanleykm »

digging wrote: post #57

I'm not a crypto proponent per se, but I do feel the need to be reasonable about it, and this reads like pure emotional anti-cryptocurrency sentiment. (edit: while I still can, I'm going to jump in and repeat that I'm criticizing this as a bad article which isn't saying anything very meaningful on its own. Thanks everyone for doing the author's work for them and gathering more data. I won't be upset if it's proven th…

> If Bitcoin mining ends up using a higher proportion of renewable energy than, say, traditional banking, it could be seen as a net good for crypto use to rise

On the other hand if crypto being on renewables is displacing things that otherwise would have been - is that a win?

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