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Just 137 crypto miners use 2.3% of total U.S. power

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Re: Just 137 crypto miners use 2.3% of total U.S. power

#131

Post by digging »

boc wrote: post #118
digging wrote: post #57

I'm not a crypto proponent per se, but I do feel the need to be reasonable about it, and this reads like pure emotional anti-cryptocurrency sentiment. (edit: while I still can, I'm going to jump in and repeat that I'm criticizing this as a bad article which isn't saying anything very meaningful on its own. Thanks everyone for doing the author's work for them and gathering more data. I won't be upset if it's proven th…

> I'm not a crypto proponent per se Yet you rolled out the standard crypto talking points flawlessly. > Energy consumption is frankly not a phenomenon I give two shits about, as an environmentalist Again, I suspect you aren't an environmentalist either. Please just be straightforward with your motivations here.

Your suspicions are wrong, but you're welcome to add to the debate if you have anything to contribute.

Re: Just 137 crypto miners use 2.3% of total U.S. power

#132

Post by quickthrower2 »

raincole wrote: post #60
jonathan-adly wrote: post #38

Power usage by itself is meaningless. The real question is the power providing utility or not. Like, no one thinks data centers for AWS are bad. They provide real benefit and utility. But, perhaps power wasted on cloth dryers and Christmas lights are a western frivolity. So, the real argument is Bitcoin useful or not. Which, like most things, is something that probably be left to the free market.

It's really hard to gauge how much utility cryptos are providing. After all, people who need cryptos the most are those who can't use "proper" channels to transfer money.

PoW is stupid and currencies need to evolve off of this.

Within Crypocurrency world there are Bitcoin maximalists who believe it is the only true coin and probably like PoW.

However other ones are moving to PoS which is better for the environment. Can’t comment on security but reckon they can make it secure.

Re: Just 137 crypto miners use 2.3% of total U.S. power

#133

Post by malermeister »

lurking15 wrote: post #106
malermeister wrote: post #10

Ban it already. We're in a global energy and climate crisis. Stop wasting it for make-believe computer money.

it's like people can't understand it was engineered to be un-killable

You can't engineer your way out of a social dilemma. If the government says "anyone caught using bitcoin goes to jail" and actually puts effort into enforcing it, all the fancy engineering in the world isn't going to help you, unless you never want to actually use it in the real world.

Re: Just 137 crypto miners use 2.3% of total U.S. power

#134

Post by andrewla »

The original estimate is "0.6% to 2.3%" -- only reporting the high end of this figure is misleading, even if we accept the premise that the underlying report [1] is correct.

[1] https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=61364 is the EIA report, which in turn references [2]

[2] https://ccaf.io/cbnsi/cbeci, which uses a series of approximations based on economic and technical factors (https://ccaf.io/cbnsi/cbeci/methodology)

Re: Just 137 crypto miners use 2.3% of total U.S. power

#135

Post by realreality »

jonathan-adly wrote: post #38

Power usage by itself is meaningless. The real question is the power providing utility or not. Like, no one thinks data centers for AWS are bad. They provide real benefit and utility. But, perhaps power wasted on cloth dryers and Christmas lights are a western frivolity. So, the real argument is Bitcoin useful or not. Which, like most things, is something that probably be left to the free market.

> Like, no one thinks data centers for AWS are bad.

In a world of dwindling EROI and exponential carbon emissions, all data centers are bad.

If we cared about the future at all, we'd be switching them off and triaging our energy use.

Re: Just 137 crypto miners use 2.3% of total U.S. power

#137

Post by infamouscow »

bdcravens wrote: post #66
jonathan-adly wrote: post #38

Power usage by itself is meaningless. The real question is the power providing utility or not. Like, no one thinks data centers for AWS are bad. They provide real benefit and utility. But, perhaps power wasted on cloth dryers and Christmas lights are a western frivolity. So, the real argument is Bitcoin useful or not. Which, like most things, is something that probably be left to the free market.

> Which, like most things, is something that probably be left to the free market. The free market is often at odds with society at large, which is why we have regulations to protect society from the free market.

Except it's not a free market.

Those same regulators also give tax breaks to large inefficient corporations and tell small businesses they must close down for arbitrary intangible public health reasons, while the large corporations can remain open.

In both examples, it's the regulators whom are detrimental to society, not the free market.

Virtually everyone that champions regulations are not for regulation, but for imposing political will in a way favorable to them. I know this because these people freak out and think it's the end of the world when there's a seat change in politics and the very same regulators they loved are now imposing political will in a way that's unfavorable to them. They also seem to believe in democracy, but only if when they win.

Re: Just 137 crypto miners use 2.3% of total U.S. power

#138

Post by lurking15 »

Bitbitcowurgh wrote: post #99
superkuh wrote: post #2

And how much energy does maintaining the military that backs US currency use? Much more and it's violent. The use of energy to protect bitcoin from attack from nation states is non-violent. It really is an efficient and ethical use of the energy.

Bitcoin doesn't solve any problem: as soon as you do anthing offchain, bitcoin doesn't protect you. Bitcoin doesn't gurantee that if you give someone money and exchange it for bitcoin that you will get the bitcoin. It will not guarantee that if you want to buy something, that you receive the item in the expected quality, time and condition. The only use case for bitcoin are ON chain transactions and the only solution…

> as soon as you do anthing offchain, bitcoin doesn't protect you

except that most, if not all, off-chain networks are still based on-chain and have mechanisms for being a relatively secure way for exchanging day-to-day without having to settle on-chain for every transaction

Re: Just 137 crypto miners use 2.3% of total U.S. power

#139

Post by Devasta »

digging wrote: post #57

I'm not a crypto proponent per se, but I do feel the need to be reasonable about it, and this reads like pure emotional anti-cryptocurrency sentiment. (edit: while I still can, I'm going to jump in and repeat that I'm criticizing this as a bad article which isn't saying anything very meaningful on its own. Thanks everyone for doing the author's work for them and gathering more data. I won't be upset if it's proven th…

> Energy consumption is frankly not a phenomenon I give two shits about, as an environmentalist. Fossil fuel consumption is.

If an org has a big polluting coal plant powering a bunch of crypto miners and with a wave of a magic wand I give them an equivalent amount of clean renewable energy, they wouldn't turn off the coal plant, rather they would just double the number of hashes they are pumping out.

Proof of work is designed to be as wasteful as possible, it will never ever be efficient or environmentally friendly.

Re: Just 137 crypto miners use 2.3% of total U.S. power

#140

Post by GaryNumanVevo »

55555 wrote: post #79

There's an argument to be made for crypto to be used to turn power that wouldn't otherwise be economical / linked to the grid / used into money, which can then be turned back into power (in a purely economic sense) later. For example wave energy could power GPUs in the middle of the ocean, with no need to then transmit electricity to shore. Solar could be captured in the middle of the desert. Some oil rigs are mining…

The energy market already works like this today (sans blockchain), any multinational provider is doing energy arbitrage across different markets and energy sources (electrical production, natural gas, etc)
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