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A seafood firm wants to farm octopus. Activists say they're too smart for that

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Re: A seafood firm wants to farm octopus. Activists say they're too smart for that

#161

Post by vrc »

histories wrote: post #154
lm28469 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People arguing that would be happy if no animals were farmed at all. The opposite argument is equally dumb, you wouldn't legalize crack because beer is a drug and beer is legal

> you wouldn't legalize crack because beer is a drug and beer is legal Off-topic, but why not? I would actually legalize every substance; enforce safety measures (e.g. no driving while high) and services like NA. Let people do what they want.

I’d be curious what legalizing weed has done to the number of people who tried it for the first time or went from non use to occasional use. I say this because the addiction/safety/outcome of many of these “harder” drugs means that a short dalliance could lead to faster addiction etc. There would be a knock on societal effect if there was an uptick in use, and NA etc are not that effective %wise for people to hop-on hop-off. By this measure, alcohol is just as bad, and while prohibition didn’t stop the flow for those seeking it and increased the safety risks from bootlegging, I wonder if a better example is to look at a country with strict historical prohibition which relaxed those rules (can’t think of an example).

Re: A seafood firm wants to farm octopus. Activists say they're too smart for that

#162

Post by hasty_pudding »

hasty_pudding wrote: post #68
jjtheblunt wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism isn’t unique by any means in that correct observation

Currency abstracts abuse into a neutral system of value and capitalism/industrialism enables this at a massive scale.

Same thing happens with drug cartel money

Re: A seafood firm wants to farm octopus. Activists say they're too smart for that

#163

Post by lm28469 »

histories wrote: post #154
lm28469 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People arguing that would be happy if no animals were farmed at all. The opposite argument is equally dumb, you wouldn't legalize crack because beer is a drug and beer is legal

> you wouldn't legalize crack because beer is a drug and beer is legal Off-topic, but why not? I would actually legalize every substance; enforce safety measures (e.g. no driving while high) and services like NA. Let people do what they want.

I can't agree with that when we're reaching into the 70% overweight/obese in the US, I personally don't believe in the "let people do what they want" until it means "and let them bear the consequences by themselves", we're all collectively paying the price of these choices

Re: A seafood firm wants to farm octopus. Activists say they're too smart for that

#164

Post by pvaldes »

salad-tycoon wrote: post #158
foofie wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Winners get to raise the next generation, losers become sushi :( If I'm not mistaken, in Spain some bullfighting events that involve matadors killing bulls for entertainment also end up supplying the dead bulls to local restaurants to serve them to tourists. https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2019/08/01/746659693/th...

"It's a tough meat," says Anta. "We cut the meat ourselves, then cook it with red wine overnight, and then it's stewed for four hours before we can serve it." Interesting, but I bet it’s no bull when they say el toro is tough. I don’t know the average age of the toro but generally you don’t want the animal to be full of adrenaline and flight/fight hormones as it makes the meat taste weird and tough. At least that’s w…

> "It's a tough meat," says Anta. "We cut the meat ourselves"

For some reason I can't avoid to read this as a masked man with a raspy Hollywood Mexican accent.

I hope that people understands that veterinarians are involved in each piece of meat ending in a public restaurant.

Re: A seafood firm wants to farm octopus. Activists say they're too smart for that

#165

Post by whazor »

s_dev wrote: post #13

The real problem is that nearly all seafood is unsustainable. Even when using euphemisms like 'farms' make us thing it's somewhat contained to one place and we just throw them some food pellets manufactured from vegetables in another factory. The reality of salmon farms for instance is that for every 1kg of farmed Salmon it takes 20kg of wild fish to feed them to maturity.

The Feed Conversation Rate for fish is between 1.0 and 2.0kg of feed to produce 1kg of fish. For salmon this is 1.2 to 1.5kg. They are replacing the wild fish with alternatives and additives that are more sustainable.

Re: A seafood firm wants to farm octopus. Activists say they're too smart for that

#166

Post by JoeAltmaier »

addicted wrote: post #26
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take too long to reach maturity. Many octopuses live just a year or two. Takes no time to get to maturity. Anyway, whales and dolphins eat them too.

Dolphins also rape each other and kill baby dolphins. That’s hardly a justification for what humans should and shouldn’t do.

NO, but it reveals what wild octopus have to put up with. Humans eating a few is like, a drop in the bucket.

Worry about something that matters. Like, to the octopus. Likely growing up in a safe well-supplied gentle pool without fear might even appeal to them.

Btw you just gave an excellent defense of why it's ok to eat dolphins. They don't care, it's business as usual for them.

Re: A seafood firm wants to farm octopus. Activists say they're too smart for that

#167

Post by ssfrr »

rokkitmensch wrote: post #142
solardev wrote: post #20

They're probably smart enough that we could train them to farm each other . Split them into two groups, give them limited food, and make them duke it out in underwater coliseums. Winners get to raise the next generation, losers become sushi :( Hell, attach some livestreaming, raise some money, sic a few LLMs on them... we can probably learn to talk to them in a decade, teach them to ride dolphins, then invite them on…

Toshio from Startide Rising comes to mind. I recall another story featuring an octopus bred for intelligence who manages an octopus-only landing vehicle on Titan or something, she smuggles her babies up and then they reproduce in the habitat and...I can't recall how it ends!

Sounds like Stephen baxter’s Manifold: Time. She’s a squid not an octopus, but same idea. Great book!

Re: A seafood firm wants to farm octopus. Activists say they're too smart for that

#168

Post by [deleted] »

vrc wrote: post #161
histories wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you wouldn't legalize crack because beer is a drug and beer is legal Off-topic, but why not? I would actually legalize every substance; enforce safety measures (e.g. no driving while high) and services like NA. Let people do what they want.

I’d be curious what legalizing weed has done to the number of people who tried it for the first time or went from non use to occasional use. I say this because the addiction/safety/outcome of many of these “harder” drugs means that a short dalliance could lead to faster addiction etc. There would be a knock on societal effect if there was an uptick in use, and NA etc are not that effective %wise for people to hop-on…

[deleted]

Re: A seafood firm wants to farm octopus. Activists say they're too smart for that

#169

Post by metta2uall »

foofie wrote: post #148
lm28469 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People arguing that would be happy if no animals were farmed at all. The opposite argument is equally dumb, you wouldn't legalize crack because beer is a drug and beer is legal

> People arguing that would be happy if no animals were farmed at all. This. It's a propaganda angle to try to get non-activists to support their group's demands by adding a spin to their claims that makes it more engaging. The same blend of propaganda also includes things like showing a picture of a pig showing only its eyes, devised to underline their similarities with human eyes. They then proceed to draw a parall…

Quite odd to label people trying to end horrific violence as "militants"...

And is it really outlandish to want to stop hurting animals that really are similar to cats, dogs and yes, us humans, at least as far as the ability to perceive pain and basic emotions. Perhaps the propaganda is actually that it is okay for non-human animals to endure horrific suffering, just so that some humans can spend a few minutes "enjoying" the taste of their flesh or breast-milk.. (the production of which also requiring huge amounts of plant-based feed, which significantly contributes to deforestation & methane emissions)

Re: A seafood firm wants to farm octopus. Activists say they're too smart for that

#170

Post by Khelavaster »

scheme271 wrote: post #96
s_dev wrote: post #13

The real problem is that nearly all seafood is unsustainable. Even when using euphemisms like 'farms' make us thing it's somewhat contained to one place and we just throw them some food pellets manufactured from vegetables in another factory. The reality of salmon farms for instance is that for every 1kg of farmed Salmon it takes 20kg of wild fish to feed them to maturity.

It really depends. The Hawaiians farmed fish several hundred years ago. They built structures (loko i'a) that encouraged certain fishes to congregate and fed/protected them. The caveat is that the fish primarily ate algae and plankton so it is considerably easier to feed the fish.

"ranching" is the right term. Like what we do for lobsters, when we feed and trap them
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