The Samsung Galaxy S III: The First Smartphone Designed Entirely By Lawyers • Hacker News Board

Re: The Samsung Galaxy S III: The First Smartphone Designed Entirely By Lawyers

#61

Post by Karunamon » Sat, May 05, 2012, 4:00 AM UTC

mbreese wrote: post #59

ameasure wrote: post #53

Patent law is nice when it ensures that innovators are compensated for their work, but Apple has clearly been compensated. Perhaps it could benefit from an addendum -- not enforceable when you're already making a ton of money off your innovation.

Why would anyone do the work to innovate if they can't make a ton of money with patent protection? Who's to say what a "ton" of money is? How much did it the initial work cost? Worrying about compensation isn't a good metric for patent validity.

  >Why would anyone do the work to innovate..

This is a very weak defense of the patent system. Innovation happened before patents existed, and would continue to exist without them.

Re: The Samsung Galaxy S III: The First Smartphone Designed Entirely By Lawyers

#62

Post by thought_alarm » Sat, May 05, 2012, 4:01 AM UTC

And yet, the white glass face still manages to evoke the iPhone 4, which is exactly what the carriers are looking for. It should be another blockbuster quarter for Samsung.

The carriers love Samsung, but they'll eventually turn. It always happens, it's just a matter of when. There are only so many $5 billion quarters that a manufacturer can earn before the manufacturer gets too cocky and the carriers pull the plug.

But it's fun to watch.

Keep an eye on the devices on display at your local carrier stores and take note of which manufacturers are featured more prominently. When the Samsung devices start to disappear, you'll know exactly what's happening.

Re: The Samsung Galaxy S III: The First Smartphone Designed Entirely By Lawyers

#63

Post by Domenic_S » Sat, May 05, 2012, 4:21 AM UTC

blinkingled wrote: post #42

thought_alarm wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Samsung made $10 billion over the last two quarters selling devices with outdated 2.x Android software. And last time I checked my carriers, none of their myriad of Samsung devices came with ICS. Clearly ICS and smooth scrolling is not important to the carriers or their typical customers. Consequently, ICS is not important to Samsung. It's not ignorant to say that Andriod scrolls poorly. It's just that scrolling perf…

Android scrolling wasn't bad enough for normal, non-picky users to notice. It's only techies who are used to iOS scrolling who complain about it.

> Android scrolling wasn't bad enough for normal, non-picky users to notice.

To _notice_? Maybe not, but perhaps the price difference vs the iPhone was more important than the smooth scrolling?

Re: The Samsung Galaxy S III: The First Smartphone Designed Entirely By Lawyers

#64

Post by Tobu » Sat, May 05, 2012, 4:30 AM UTC

Xuzz wrote: post #47

Tobu wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of legal weapon is just emerging, and it's a product of circumstance — patent offices have rubberstamped hundreds of Apple's bevelled rectangles, and Apple recently found a court that would act on it and delay sales. It's a bit early to say lawyers have it all figured out, and that we should shut up and listen to them. Consequences matter, the intent and spirit of the law matter — lobbying, laws, case law,…

Again, Nilay Patel at The Verge (maybe read the article? http://theverge.com/2011/04/19/apple-sues-samsung-analysis/ ): Trade dress law is well-established, and Apple itself has a history of successfully pursuing trade dress claims in the Northern District of California. In 2000 the company sued both eMachines and a company called Future Power for knocking off the iMac's trade dress, winning injunctions in both cases…

The 2011 case featured in the Verge bundles trade dress claims, that have been enforced in the past with a less simple and much more distinctive look, with design patents, which I'm not aware Apple has been able to enforce before. The other one we discussed is for a European “community design”, something which was created (sorry, “harmonised”) in 2002, and those extremely simple shapes were registered by Apple in 2010: http://www.scribd.com/doc/61944044/Community-Design-00018160...

Here is what makes community designs a step up from other roadblocks against competitors: http://www.osnews.com/story/25056/The_Community_Design_and_y...

Re: The Samsung Galaxy S III: The First Smartphone Designed Entirely By Lawyers

#65

Post by rayiner » Sat, May 05, 2012, 4:33 AM UTC

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #55

taligent wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why you can't patent something just like that. If you aren't going to actually learn and understand design patents then of course you are going to think it is ridiculous.

You seem to be rather short and dismissive of individuals' comments on patents, design patents and their context in this and the Oracle v Google case. For those of us that don't understand, an explanation would go a lot further than snark.

Think of how you would feel in a thread if someone started ranting about PowerPC and Apple machines even though they use Intel CPU's now. That's where the snark comes from when people start ranting about patents in a story that has nothing to do with patents.

tl;dr version: Apple didn't patent rectangles. They're claiming the combination of the various features of the iPhone (rectangular shape, even black border, rounded corners, rounded rectangle icons, etc) as trade dress. Trade dress protection isn't a patent, it's part of trademark. It's based on the idea that you can recognize say a product by its look not just the logo on the box. I personally think trade dress protection tends to be too broad, but it's a whole different set of issues from patents.

Re: The Samsung Galaxy S III: The First Smartphone Designed Entirely By Lawyers

#66

Post by Tobu » Sat, May 05, 2012, 4:33 AM UTC

Retric wrote: post #56

Tobu wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of legal weapon is just emerging, and it's a product of circumstance — patent offices have rubberstamped hundreds of Apple's bevelled rectangles, and Apple recently found a court that would act on it and delay sales. It's a bit early to say lawyers have it all figured out, and that we should shut up and listen to them. Consequences matter, the intent and spirit of the law matter — lobbying, laws, case law,…

If by 'new' you mean 1946 then sure: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanham_Act

That's trademarks, which so far have been more faithful to their stated goal of preventing consumer confusion, rather than creating new kinds of private property. For example, I don't need Apple's permission to use the trademarked word Apple, as long as I'm referring to the firm, or as long as I'm not using it in the context of electronics or music.

Re: The Samsung Galaxy S III: The First Smartphone Designed Entirely By Lawyers

#67

Post by ajross » Sat, May 05, 2012, 4:34 AM UTC

karlshea wrote: post #39

Tobu wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protecting customers from misrepresentation – unknowingly being sold something that does not match the logo stamped on it: fine; protecting a megacorp from its competitors selling something with similar design, but a different brand name: customers lose.

You'd be right, but it wasn't "similar" design. They weren't sued because it was a black rectangle. This is closer to flipping the Pepsi logo upside-down and selling cola, then bitching about how unfair the patent and trademark system is.

The iPhone's design is mostly functional, it's not artwork like a logo. You can't copy a logo for clear reasons.

A closer analog would be selling, say, a cola in a 12 oz. blue, red and white can with white lettering: http://goo.gl/q5k8n

Re: The Samsung Galaxy S III: The First Smartphone Designed Entirely By Lawyers

#68

Post by rayiner » Sat, May 05, 2012, 4:35 AM UTC

ameasure wrote: post #53

Patent law is nice when it ensures that innovators are compensated for their work, but Apple has clearly been compensated. Perhaps it could benefit from an addendum -- not enforceable when you're already making a ton of money off your innovation.

It's not a patent?

Re: The Samsung Galaxy S III: The First Smartphone Designed Entirely By Lawyers

#69

Post by andrewflnr » Sat, May 05, 2012, 4:38 AM UTC

heliodor wrote: post #3

I'd have to disagree about it being an ugly design. What was ugly was the hack of putting squares around every icon, when those icons were designed to live on their own, not in a square. That's what was ugly. I'm happy to see the squares gone and the design conform to the standard Android design guidelines. The dock of icons going away is also good. If I'm looking in the applications list it's because I'm looking for…

I would actually kind of like a nice charcoal grey for my phone.

Re: The Samsung Galaxy S III: The First Smartphone Designed Entirely By Lawyers

#70

Post by flotblot » Sat, May 05, 2012, 4:38 AM UTC

It looks good to me. If it were designed by lawyers, unless they were designers, I think it would look like crap. The corners are still rounded and I think the other changes aren't that bad.