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As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

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Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#331
post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it were allowed and available I bet a huge amount of Texans would be buying 155mm just for bragging rights.

Alright, I'll bite, because I bet there's somebody out there that knows: why isn't it allowed? What rule by the ATF says that 150mm isn't an arm allowed by the second amendment?

It’s not administrative, but legislative.

ATF is empowered to interpret these laws. The law is quite clear that a howitzer is regulated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destructive_device

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia annexed those territories, following referendums, because Ukraine refused to negotiate. Russia views them as Russian territory now — and has said they’re willing to use nuclear weapons in their defense (as they would for any territory). De facto those are Russian. Ukraine has passed a law saying they absolutely refuse to negotiate a peace settlement with Putin. Again, you can believe that’s righteous… but all…

Who says that Russia would have honored that settlement? It didnt all the others. Russia invaded and annexed Crimea, then started the proxy war in the Donbas and then a few years later came back for a full invasion. Dont forget the plethora of different reasons Putin gives for the invasion. Bio Labs, nuclear weapons aspirations, language laws, civil war(that he himself started).......There will always be more than en…

Putin just gave a two hour interview where he explains the efforts they made and why they view this as a US coup.

There’s nothing about this which is colonial/imperial: Ukraine was already separate for decades, peacefully, until outside nations supported violent overthrow of a democratically elected government which followed its rise to power with oppression of an ethnic group.

If we’re discussing what politicians say, then I see:

- Russia is making points about how the regions they annexed were oppressed after they made efforts to reach peace settlements

- US is frothing at the mouth about harming Russia

- Ukraine is saying crazy things, like laying claims to part of Russia.

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia annexed those territories, following referendums, because Ukraine refused to negotiate. Russia views them as Russian territory now — and has said they’re willing to use nuclear weapons in their defense (as they would for any territory). De facto those are Russian. Ukraine has passed a law saying they absolutely refuse to negotiate a peace settlement with Putin. Again, you can believe that’s righteous… but all…

Putin claimed at the beginning of the war that it did not seek any territory from Ukraine (to be fair, nobody really believed him). Annexation of those territories was thus an increase in the amount of war goals that Russia sought. The referendums were canceled in the wake of the Russian army suffering an embarrassing rout near Kharkiv, and hurriedly rescheduled when it looked like Russia might lose control of Kherso…

Russia annexed those regions when it became the best way to protect the people there, after the collapse of negotiations.

> I will fault Ukraine for many things, but being unwilling to negotiate with someone who will not moderate their goals in line with their ability to achieve them is not one of them.

This is something Ukraine should consider, after the massive failure of their Sprint/Summer Offensive of 2023.

Ukraine needs to moderate their aims in light of their military failures — before the fanaticism leads to their destruction.

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#334
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the American Dream of howitzer ownership may be alive and well among the 0.01%, it's getting harder and harder for the rest of us to maintain our $4,000/round artillery habits. A modest proposal: the US Army should offer obsolete and surplus artillery in exchange for handguns. Given the price of ammunition, correlation between poverty and gun violence, the logistics involved in large-scale artillery theft, and…

> (...) it's getting harder and harder for the rest of us to maintain our $4,000/round artillery habits. The $4,000/round figure sparked my curiosity, and after checking it looks like the actual unit price is below $2,000. There are some beefy pricetags being floated around, buy they are calculated indirectly by dividing the total cost of a ammo supply contract by the number of artillery rounds ordered. From the arti…

Cursory search suggests prices ranging from $400 to $1,800,000 per round for what I assume are wildly different types of 155mm ammunition, though I'm willing to bet the $1,800,000 figure is the total cost of a canceled production program that planned to deliver a large number of rounds, amortized across the small number of rounds actually delivered before the program was canceled.

At $1,800,000/round, firing hollow rounds loosely packed with $100 bills and a note promising another volley as soon as the target agrees to stand down would probably be a more cost-effective option.

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off the top of my head, in this space DOD invented: CPUs/registers, random access memory, packet switched networks, internetworking, TCP/IPv4. I’m sure there’s more.

DoD did not really invent anything, but they have financed the research required to invent things according to their requirements, without which the things enumerated by you might have been invented only decades later. All the modern semiconductor industry, including the discovery of transistors and of solar cells, has its origin in the research done during WWII, mostly at Bell Laboratories, to make improved detector…

So you're saying my original comment could be clarified to something like, "you have the US and UK taxpayers to thank for this industry, lest anyone forgets"?

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putin claimed at the beginning of the war that it did not seek any territory from Ukraine (to be fair, nobody really believed him). Annexation of those territories was thus an increase in the amount of war goals that Russia sought. The referendums were canceled in the wake of the Russian army suffering an embarrassing rout near Kharkiv, and hurriedly rescheduled when it looked like Russia might lose control of Kherso…

Russia annexed those regions when it became the best way to protect the people there, after the collapse of negotiations. > I will fault Ukraine for many things, but being unwilling to negotiate with someone who will not moderate their goals in line with their ability to achieve them is not one of them. This is something Ukraine should consider, after the massive failure of their Sprint/Summer Offensive of 2023. Ukra…

> Russia annexed those regions when it became the best way to protect the people there, after the collapse of negotiations.

Taking into account the daily terror raids conducted with artillery and missiles on towns and villages of annexed parts of Ukraine like Kherson, I don't think you'll find many suckers who'll fall for that excuse.

If Russian government feels strongly about protecting people, particularly ethnic Russians, they could start by ordering the police not to beat and molest peaceful protesters on the Red Square anymore.

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

gentleman's agreement... what a weird way to say there was no agreement.

Don't you know. Russians never mastered the art of written treaties. The Soviets were confused and thought that pinky swear (after all of the deception of cold war) is guarantee of future power sharing :D

> :D

It's always refreshing to see what the West never does what it says, never did.

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putin claimed at the beginning of the war that it did not seek any territory from Ukraine (to be fair, nobody really believed him). Annexation of those territories was thus an increase in the amount of war goals that Russia sought. The referendums were canceled in the wake of the Russian army suffering an embarrassing rout near Kharkiv, and hurriedly rescheduled when it looked like Russia might lose control of Kherso…

Russia annexed those regions when it became the best way to protect the people there, after the collapse of negotiations. > I will fault Ukraine for many things, but being unwilling to negotiate with someone who will not moderate their goals in line with their ability to achieve them is not one of them. This is something Ukraine should consider, after the massive failure of their Sprint/Summer Offensive of 2023. Ukra…

> Russia annexed those regions when it became the best way to protect the people there, after the collapse of negotiations.

Okay, since you brought this up, I have to know now. How does annexation of that territory protect the inhabitants there, compared to a world where Russia merely occupies the territory?

For bonus points, please explain why that offsets the effect it has of lengthening the war (since it makes the Russian and Ukrainian positions more, not less, irreconcilable).

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who says that Russia would have honored that settlement? It didnt all the others. Russia invaded and annexed Crimea, then started the proxy war in the Donbas and then a few years later came back for a full invasion. Dont forget the plethora of different reasons Putin gives for the invasion. Bio Labs, nuclear weapons aspirations, language laws, civil war(that he himself started).......There will always be more than en…

Putin just gave a two hour interview where he explains the efforts they made and why they view this as a US coup. There’s nothing about this which is colonial/imperial: Ukraine was already separate for decades, peacefully, until outside nations supported violent overthrow of a democratically elected government which followed its rise to power with oppression of an ethnic group. If we’re discussing what politicians sa…

> until outside nations supported violent overthrow of a democratically elected government which followed its rise to power with oppression of an ethnic group.

The trouble with this narrative is that it's fictional and not supported by facts. It is no different from Hitler's delusions about global Jewish conspiracy against the Germans. One can subscribe to these narratives only if they accept known falsehoods as the truth and reject many facts as lies.

Even rhetorically, arguments like the oppression of ethnic Russians in Ukraine are preposterous given how Russia has become one of the most oppressive places on the planet. Such allegations sound like Hitler justifying the bombing of London with the way the English treated the Scots or the Irish - while turning a blind eye to the Holocaust going on at home.

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who says that Russia would have honored that settlement? It didnt all the others. Russia invaded and annexed Crimea, then started the proxy war in the Donbas and then a few years later came back for a full invasion. Dont forget the plethora of different reasons Putin gives for the invasion. Bio Labs, nuclear weapons aspirations, language laws, civil war(that he himself started).......There will always be more than en…

Putin just gave a two hour interview where he explains the efforts they made and why they view this as a US coup. There’s nothing about this which is colonial/imperial: Ukraine was already separate for decades, peacefully, until outside nations supported violent overthrow of a democratically elected government which followed its rise to power with oppression of an ethnic group. If we’re discussing what politicians sa…

> - Ukraine is saying crazy things, like laying claims to part of Russia.

Do you have any links to this? I am not aware of Ukraine laying claim to any part of Russia, asides from those parts that the international community still regards as Ukrainian territory that Russia illegally annexed (namely, Crimea, Donbass, Luhansk, Zaporizhzhia, and Kherson).

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