Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Entrepreneurs in Prison

kashflow.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 62 posts

Re: Entrepreneurs in Prison

#41

Post by d_jackson_kf »

bmelton wrote: post #21
Mz wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't sound far off to me. My understanding is many start dealing to help support their habit and it grows from there. I don't have firsthand experience but I've had "friends in low places" so to speak. What do you propose as a more logical explanation and what is your theory based on? Thanks.

Particularly as it relates to imprisonment (meaning 'rural' dealers are less likely to be caught and imprisoned) - the average drug dealer in prison likely got into it out of necessity in one form or another. In urban environments, drug dealers are more plentiful, work on slimmer margins and operate in a riskier environment. In more cases than not, the drug dealers that are dealing with enough volume to catch prison…

It's the way I started dealing. And the way many others I know (both in prison and out) did too. And I'm certainly not middle-class.

I think pleading "necessity" sounds like excusing the actions. It's very very rarely neccesary to have to deal drugs or similar to stay above the poverty line. Especially here in the UK where unemployment benefits are fairly generous. Unless not having the latest pair of Nike Air Max equates to poverty.

Re: Entrepreneurs in Prison

#42

Post by bmelton »

d_jackson_kf wrote: post #41
bmelton wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Particularly as it relates to imprisonment (meaning 'rural' dealers are less likely to be caught and imprisoned) - the average drug dealer in prison likely got into it out of necessity in one form or another. In urban environments, drug dealers are more plentiful, work on slimmer margins and operate in a riskier environment. In more cases than not, the drug dealers that are dealing with enough volume to catch prison…

It's the way I started dealing. And the way many others I know (both in prison and out) did too. And I'm certainly not middle-class. I think pleading "necessity" sounds like excusing the actions. It's very very rarely neccesary to have to deal drugs or similar to stay above the poverty line. Especially here in the UK where unemployment benefits are fairly generous. Unless not having the latest pair of Nike Air Max eq…

I don't doubt that there are people who start dealing in exactly that fashion, I just don't think it's the most common way. Looking back at the article however, I see you said 'many' and I probably read it as 'most', so we're probably both right.

As for my use of necessity, I certainly don't mean to excuse their actions -- perhaps 'believed necessity' would be more appropriate.

Last thing, I was also speaking specifically to what I know of American drug dealing, and I have absolutely zero knowledge of how well that information travels overseas.

Re: Entrepreneurs in Prison

#43

Post by jeremyarussell »

drhayes9 wrote: post #39
jeremyarussell wrote: post #23

I wrote this in the comments on the article, but also wanted to share my thoughts with everyone here, please reply if you have something to say about what I'm about to say, this is one of the topics in life that I haven't finished making conclusions on, it is terribly complicated and I'd love feedback on my mental process. Thanks. When someone goes to prison it's generally for a good reason, after the jury and trial…

I don't think I'm disagreeing with the gist of your comment, but a couple of the ideas you put forward as givens freaked me out. We have to leave aside two unanswered statements in your comment: how many people in prison actually deserve to be there, and how many of their rights prisoners surrender by being convicted of a crime. I'd argue that one's human rights don't ever get revoked, but that's just me. What is the…

Human rights shouldn't get revoked, no doubt, they are still human after all. I'm referring to citizenship rights, like the right to a minimum wage as an example, or the right to have certain foods or religious needs met. At the end of the day most inmates took rights away from another, like in the case of rape, a girls right to say no. Or murder, a persons right to live.

I would say in regards to rehabilitation that we teach them exactly what they need to know about society in order to cope with coming back in, I do agree that if someone spent that long without freedom, and they served their time, then they should be free when they get out, with all rights given back.

I get that it's a terrible punishment to, sometimes worse then death for people that enjoy their freedom, I would argue that we continue to evolve what is the "correct" length of time for people to be in prison for one. And yeah we shouldn't be against someone turning their life around, but not to the extent that we waste resources on people getting a second chance, when there's a plethora of people still waiting for their first chance.

Re: Entrepreneurs in Prison

#44

Post by Mz »

jeremyarussell wrote: post #23

I wrote this in the comments on the article, but also wanted to share my thoughts with everyone here, please reply if you have something to say about what I'm about to say, this is one of the topics in life that I haven't finished making conclusions on, it is terribly complicated and I'd love feedback on my mental process. Thanks. When someone goes to prison it's generally for a good reason, after the jury and trial…

Some thoughts:

Jury nullification: Discrimination in some form or another plays such a large role in who goes to prison that we actually have a term in th U.S. for the process of trying to combat it with what amounts to legal civil disobedience.

When a regime falls: I have heard it said that when a regime falls, the first thing that gets done is to release all the prisoners. Why? Because being in prison isn't about being a bad person. It is about violating the rules.

I knew a man for a time who went to prison in his youth for his political activism. He was extremely idealistic. Like me, he was prone to being too honest for his own good. He was very clear that laws are written by humans and there is nothing inherently moral about them. They are, at best, only as wise and moral as the authors. Unfortunately, in most cases they are less wise and moral than that since getting passed at all may involve politicking and compromise. And in many case they are writen with no intent to be "fair" (such as Jim Crow laws).

Best of luck in coming to some meaningful, informed conclusions.

Re: Entrepreneurs in Prison

#45

Post by jeremyarussell »

Mz wrote: post #44
jeremyarussell wrote: post #23

I wrote this in the comments on the article, but also wanted to share my thoughts with everyone here, please reply if you have something to say about what I'm about to say, this is one of the topics in life that I haven't finished making conclusions on, it is terribly complicated and I'd love feedback on my mental process. Thanks. When someone goes to prison it's generally for a good reason, after the jury and trial…

Some thoughts: Jury nullification: Discrimination in some form or another plays such a large role in who goes to prison that we actually have a term in th U.S. for the process of trying to combat it with what amounts to legal civil disobedience. When a regime falls: I have heard it said that when a regime falls, the first thing that gets done is to release all the prisoners. Why? Because being in prison isn't about b…

I can't agree more in regards to Jim Crow laws. Also the war on drugs. Prostitution (seems like a victimless crime to me.) Etc. etc. I'm mostly referring to prisoners that do things like kill, rape, extort, and pounce on another's freedom to pursue happiness and such.

Re: Entrepreneurs in Prison

#46

Post by Mz »

jeremyarussell wrote: post #45
Mz wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some thoughts: Jury nullification: Discrimination in some form or another plays such a large role in who goes to prison that we actually have a term in th U.S. for the process of trying to combat it with what amounts to legal civil disobedience. When a regime falls: I have heard it said that when a regime falls, the first thing that gets done is to release all the prisoners. Why? Because being in prison isn't about b…

I can't agree more in regards to Jim Crow laws. Also the war on drugs. Prostitution (seems like a victimless crime to me.) Etc. etc. I'm mostly referring to prisoners that do things like kill, rape, extort, and pounce on another's freedom to pursue happiness and such.

The problem with your standard is that even in the case of murder and other violent crimes, sex, race and socioeconomic status (also influenced by race and gender) play a big role in who actually does time.

As a woman, here is one example I am painfully aware of: A woman who defends herself with lethal force against a husband who has beaten her for years does more time on average than an abusive husband who finally goes too far and beats his wife to death. I can explain some of the reasons why that happens if you care to hear it. But the reasons do not change the fact that injustices happen daily in our legal system and many of our laws foster those injustices, to say nothing of the biases of judges and juries.

Peace.

Re: Entrepreneurs in Prison

#47

Post by d_jackson_kf »

jeremyarussell wrote: post #45
Mz wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some thoughts: Jury nullification: Discrimination in some form or another plays such a large role in who goes to prison that we actually have a term in th U.S. for the process of trying to combat it with what amounts to legal civil disobedience. When a regime falls: I have heard it said that when a regime falls, the first thing that gets done is to release all the prisoners. Why? Because being in prison isn't about b…

I can't agree more in regards to Jim Crow laws. Also the war on drugs. Prostitution (seems like a victimless crime to me.) Etc. etc. I'm mostly referring to prisoners that do things like kill, rape, extort, and pounce on another's freedom to pursue happiness and such.

"I'm mostly referring to prisoners that do things like kill, rape, extort,..."

That a small minority of prisoners

"...and pounce on another's freedom to pursue happiness and such."

Although that may or may not catch many more in your definition.

Re: Entrepreneurs in Prison

#48

Post by olalonde »

ahi wrote: post #34
olalonde wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which part is wrong, the punish part or the cost part? Is it controversial to punish criminals?

Yes. At one point in our history the criminal justice discussions were about how best to rehabilitate the offender rather than punishment. Punishment that neither makes the victim whole or rehabilitates the offender is just useless vengeance.

Rehabilitation is a secondary purpose of incarceration, its main purpose being to deter others from committing crimes and to isolate dangerous criminals. A lot of criminals don't even have to be rehabilitated (e.g. educated criminals or criminals serving lifetime sentences).

Re: Entrepreneurs in Prison

#49

Post by JVIDEL »

Nowhere in the article I see anything about the mental disorders of criminals, psychopaths and sociopaths who can be very entrepreneurial but also very low on ethics.

There are two kinds of criminals: the ones that do it because they were desperate, and the ones that are mentally ill and not only can't see risk but can't see why it's wrong to kill another person for money or turf.

The desperate ones would truly like to have a normal life and a job, but some of then were born SOL into crack houses and abusive fathers. The psychopaths come from every social class, I meet this guy in college who had rich parents and still was trying to push X all over the place.

Re: Entrepreneurs in Prison

#50

Post by jeremyarussell »

d_jackson_kf wrote: post #47
jeremyarussell wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't agree more in regards to Jim Crow laws. Also the war on drugs. Prostitution (seems like a victimless crime to me.) Etc. etc. I'm mostly referring to prisoners that do things like kill, rape, extort, and pounce on another's freedom to pursue happiness and such.

"I'm mostly referring to prisoners that do things like kill, rape, extort,..." That a small minority of prisoners "...and pounce on another's freedom to pursue happiness and such." Although that may or may not catch many more in your definition.

Then we should be using money on people that violate the more severe laws, and not waste it on people that smoke pot, etc.

I suppose in my mind we need to do it in an order like this, first change who is getting arrested, then decide if those people deserve minimum wage, etc.

Post reply on HN