Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

sfgate.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

571–580 of 750 posts

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#571

Post by flakes »

CalRobert wrote: post #439
flakes wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with most laws that impose absolutes. The courts exist to deal with grey areas. A large number of pedestrians struck by cars each year (at least in North America), are themselves intoxicated, and not fit to walk along roadways. There are many cases where the driver should not reasonably be at fault for a pedestrians erratic behavior. There's also the "hit-to-kill" phenomenon in China, where it can be fi…

A lot of pedestrians are kids, who by their nature are erratic. Saying that it's the kid's fault for getting hit because they were "erratic" is effectively banning children from walking places, which is exactly what the US has done ("WHy don't kids play outside anymore???") The person operating the dangerous machinery where there could be people walking bears responsibility for not hitting people.

This is all true. As a driver, you are definitely expected to be aware at all times. Things like schoolzones enforce drivers being more aware and slowing even more. We have rules to not pass school buses when children are departing. We have speed limits that are lower in suburbs.

Even if you follow all of these rules, theres not too much you can do about someone suddenly staggering infront of your car. Obviously if you see them ahead of time, be even more cautious.

(also drunk people are in-part banned from roadways- public intoxication is a misdemeanor)

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#572

Post by dudul »

ChatGTP wrote: post #564
dudul wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cyclists need to follow the rules. If a cyclist starts buffooning on the road and ends up in an accident I have no problem saying that they were looking for it.

I'm sorry, but where did I say the cyclists shouldn't obey the rules? Basically, in all cases the cyclist is going to come off first in any encounter with a car.

"As a cyclist and a driver I feel the one driving the killing machine is always at fault."

I dont see a lot of ambiguity here.

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#573

Post by triceratops »

elwebmaster wrote: post #135
lmm wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rolling through stop signs while cycling is generally appropriate (and is the law in more enlightened places). In California it may be illegal, but so is a car exceeding the speed limit, and few would excuse Waymo for hitting one of those.

Cyclists are just dangerous and until we look at statistics we can’t assume that AI does worse than humans in protecting cyclists. As a driver, it took me many years to get into the habit of shoulder checking when turning right from the right lane. I always have my turning signal but to cyclists it doesn’t mean much, they will always try to pass me on the right on the intersection. Cyclists sometimes behave as though…

> I always have my turning signal but to cyclists it doesn’t mean much, they will always try to pass me on the right on the intersection

I suspect you aren't merging into the bike lane when turning right and leaving space for a cyclist to pass you on the right. I've seen many drivers make that mistake. As a cyclist I never pass cars on the right in this situation because drivers don't check.

You are supposed to merge into the bike lane before turning. It's in the DMV handbook. The painted bike lane becomes a dotted line close to the intersection for precisely that reason.

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#574

Post by 7e »

armada651 wrote: post #389
7e wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, have fewer stops. But even if you separate the routes, cyclists will eventually have to stop somewhere (even for other cyclists), and they won’t want to.

You'll see a lot more cyclists acting safely if it's actually safe to cycle. Dangerous cycling infrastructure scares away safe cyclists, so all you're left with are the daredevils who won't stop for anything.

It's actually more tha bikes don't have license plates, and aren't pulled over and ticketed by cops. The anonymity drives lawlessness.

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#575

Post by nerdponx »

SllX wrote: post #405
undersuit wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like I'm the only person in my town without tinted windows. I never see other drivers faes whether I'm driving, biking, or walking.

Is your town in California? Cuz that would be hella illegal for their front windows and windshields to be tinted to the point you can’t even see their faces. https://www.californiacarlaws.com/window-tint/

It's somewhere between "moderately" and "hella" illegal just about everywhere in the northeast, but people still do it all the time.

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#576

Post by nerdponx »

Ferret7446 wrote: post #118
nerdponx wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also arguably safer for the cyclist to do so. Bikes typically accelerate much slower than cars.

This incident literally disproves your claim.

I said "can be" not "is always". Don't go there.

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#577

Post by teekert »

zilti wrote: post #560
teekert wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a US perspective you have a car-first culture. If you have a bike first infrastructure you wouldn't talk like that. Here Bikes and cars are often even on different roads, where they need to cross, it's made very clear how that will work (traffic lights, clear lanes).

No, that is the perspective of a sane person. God damn it. I am European, and I - without a driver's license, so just a cyclist and pedestrian btw - have to deal with the behaviour of the entitled cycling shits every day, especially since I moved to Berlin. Occasionally also with pedestrians that just suddenly step onto the street without even looking. Surprisingly, the car drivers - even though they are assholes in…

You have a perspective I don't recognize.

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#578

Post by 7e »

armada651 wrote: post #364
7e wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cycling is dangerous when mixed with cars, for sure. But blazing through at an intersection full of cars which are expecting you to stop is even more dangerous. Stop sign rules exist for a reason (to slow vehicles down enough that everyone can see and negotiate everyone else) and it's safer for all if you obey them. This is an example of the rationalization I alluded to earlier. Cyclists lie to themselves. Next you w…

> Next you will be telling me that changing lanes without signaling or looking, swerving through traffic, ignoring stop signs on bike paths, riding while looking at one's phone, riding the wrong way, riding without a helmet, or at night without lights (all of which I observe all the time from cyclists) are evolved safety behaviors. You've just described the average cyclist in Amsterdam. They'll do all of that at the…

28% of vehicle fatalities in Amsterdam are cycling related. Deaths do happen. If you’re arguing that these behaviors are, in fact, safe, I would disagree strongly. The U.S. drives large trucks at high speeds because the U.S. isn't very dense, even in cities, and car centric. And bike infrastructure is lacking. I agree, making cycling safer makes cyclists safer. But none of this explains why cyclists bike like a*holes in every country, which is the point I was making. In addition to the physics of bikes encouraging selfish behavior, there is the lack of license plates and ticketing.

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#579

Post by teekert »

LtWorf wrote: post #522
teekert wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You obviously are not from a culture where everybody is a cyclist. We have more bikes than cars in our country because you can use them at all ages and get to more places using a bike. My kids learned to ride a bike at 2. We have some research [0], on average anybody over 6 rode a bike 232 times and an average of about 1000 km in 2022. [0] https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/visualisaties/verkeer-en-vervoer/pe...

I'm from a culture where mountains exist. Geography isn't a culture. Having said that. In Sweden this routinely happens: To clear the bike and car paths from snow, a mountain is of snow is made over the pedestrian path, then INEVITABLY bicyclists angry ring at pedestrians all the time… because pedestrians should walk in 1 meter high piled up snow of course? The same also happens if there is a digging in progress and…

You are an angry person. Most people are kind, something is not adding up here.

Re: Cyclist hit by driverless Waymo car in San Francisco, police say

#580

Post by willvarfar »

lupusreal wrote: post #523
willvarfar wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have always wanted a self-driving car so there's no more "designated driver" hassle with going out.

"Going out" is synonymous with drinking? You could just... not drink.

There's a cultural dimension.

In general south europe culture it is normal to drink wine to food, and enjoy it, but also embarrassing to get publically drunk.

Whereas in northern europe, though, it's all beer or spirits and the aim is to get as drunk as possible as quickly as possible.

These generalisations are based on my own observations. There's doubtless a lot of variation.

Post reply on HN