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What happened with the Web Monetization API?

chriscoyier.net

261–270 of 271 posts

Re: What happened with the Web Monetization API?

#261
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That white paper was written when? 2008, give or take a couple years? "Speed," as we refer to it, is relative to the age. In 2008, the threshold for terms like "fast" was much lower than it is today.

In 2008 I could make instant, secure online payments with credit cards.

I'm not entirely sure about the point you're intending to make but I have an assumption. Perhaps your intention is to say that credit cards were faster than blockchains at processing transactions in 2008 (they still are today.) In which case, yes, I believe credit cards have been a thing since the 1950s, so they benefit a lot from the age of the technology. Credit cards are also just kind of a concept that goes almost as far back as banks and bankers do, where banks would loan out money for you to spend and pay back. Credit cards just abstracted a concept that always existed with some additional systems that were built around them over time like maintaining a trust record for individuals (credit scores) and online payment processing that benefits from the simplicity of going through a single trusted party that goes virtually unchecked for accuracy (I can't make an audit of financial transactions that VISA handled today and say "Bob had a 0 balance but they spent $6000 today somehow," for example.) Blockchain has none of that historical advantage, and has essentially only existed since 2008, and has not benefited much from mass adoption mostly because it's extremely easy for rational consumers to dismiss it as slow, or "only scammers use it," which would be even less true if legitimate users dismissed it less easily. That's not to say I think blockchain is ready for general consumers, in my opinion it's still an incubating technology.

Re: What happened with the Web Monetization API?

#262
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are there any promising avenues towards microtransactions that gets around small card transactions getting a hefty fee This is anathema here in the US but the rest of the world typically does not use credit cards as the default payment method.

Americans use credit cards as the default payment method? Why?

To boost credit rating. When you have none credits, your credit rating is ZERO, and it is considered bad. So you could pay for example 10$ (yes, small amount) from zero percent credit, and regularly pay it and this will effectively raise credit rating.

Re: What happened with the Web Monetization API?

#263
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why is the VAT a showstopper ? Because of extra complexity ? But the payment software itself can figure out the exact amounts. Which then can also be aggregated monthly/yearly. Not to mention that plenty of jurisdictions only require that for businesses, while non-businesses don't have to report anything about their donations/sales unless they cross a yearly threshold.

I can't find it now, but several years ago a dev posted his experiences here dealing with VAT when selling software across the EU. He had to comply with a completely different set of tax laws for each EU member state that he received a purchase from. The cost he paid to his accountant to be able to be in compliance was like twice what he paid in actual taxes. A big party of the problem is that many of the tax laws we…

That sounds like it was fairly long ago. With the introduction of the VAT MOSS (Mini One Stop Shop) system somewhere around 2015 it got a lot easier. VAT MOSS got replaced with something else a couple years ago, whose name I forget, but it largely works the same at least from the point of view of a non-EU company selling digital goods via the net into the EU.

The way VAT MOSS work is that instead of having to register for VAT collection in every EU country you sell in, and having to deal with reporting and remitting in every such country, you just have to register in one. You do all your reporting and remitting to just the tax authorities in that country.

You still have to collect the correct VAT on your sales into the other countries, but you report those sales to the country you are registered with and turn the money over to them. They deal with then reporting to and paying the other countries.

We're registered in Ireland. I wasn't involved in registering, but the person who handled it told me that it took something like 10 minutes on the web, with no need to interact with any humans. The quarterly reporting is, I'm told, a simple upload of a CSV file that contains a line for each EU country we had sales in listing the total amount of sales, the VAT rate, and the VAT collected.

Re: What happened with the Web Monetization API?

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Realistically a 100mb block would be large enough to handle all transaction data our species currently generates. Nonsense. With the current block size and average transaction size, the bitcoin network processes ~7 transactions per second. A 100X increase in block size gets you to 700 transactions per second. A quick google says global credit card transactions currently average more than 21,000 per second. You're s…

Maybe my global transaction number is off. I'm not sure if the blockchain algo would have other bottlenecks when at 10gb blocks which is the size it would need to grow in order to accommodate 70k/sec. Certainly storage and network transfer is sufficient enough. It seems pretty feasible to process 16.67 MBps of data even on inefficient algorithms.

With 10G blocks @ ~144 block per day, that's almost 1.5 TB per day.

The complete blockchain is currently about half a TB.

According to bitcoin technology experts, a network of Full Nodes is more secure than a network of Partial Nodes. Right now almost anyone can run a Full Node. If you make the blockchain grow by 1.5 TB per day, only big corporations will be able to run Full Nodes.

So no, existing storage and network transfer is not sufficient for large block sizes, at least not for the current way we validate BTC transactions. I assume if there was a good technology fix for the full/partial node issue, it would have been implemented already.

Re: What happened with the Web Monetization API?

#265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is the point of lightning network for btc, way lower costsand nearly instantaneous transactions. I haven’t tried it so far.

Because it's still theory 7 years after announcement it has been proven again and again to not be a real alternative.

Lightning has had lots of problems, but most of those are fixable through software or gets better and better with adoption (at least in theory).

The reason adoption has been so low is that with current hardware you cannot run a full node in a phone, so you either get a server to run a full node or you trade-off some control/security of your coins

There are still other theoretical problems, mostly things like denial-of-services, but adoption has been what has stagnated it.

The hardware/control tradeoff is a real PITA, we need a phone with like 50x more battery or efficient to be able to run lightning in a completely self-custodial manner

And there are still some people advocating for blocksize increase, which will make the problems of lightning even worse

Re: What happened with the Web Monetization API?

#266
post #263
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't find it now, but several years ago a dev posted his experiences here dealing with VAT when selling software across the EU. He had to comply with a completely different set of tax laws for each EU member state that he received a purchase from. The cost he paid to his accountant to be able to be in compliance was like twice what he paid in actual taxes. A big party of the problem is that many of the tax laws we…

That sounds like it was fairly long ago. With the introduction of the VAT MOSS (Mini One Stop Shop) system somewhere around 2015 it got a lot easier. VAT MOSS got replaced with something else a couple years ago, whose name I forget, but it largely works the same at least from the point of view of a non-EU company selling digital goods via the net into the EU. The way VAT MOSS work is that instead of having to registe…

That sounds like wonderful news!

Re: What happened with the Web Monetization API?

#267
It will happen once bitcoin has proven itself as a store of value, new layers have been built on top of it and matured and have acquired a large user base with network effect.

Right now we already have proof of concept of a decentralised micro-payment network with Lightning. But it won't gain widespread adoption until more people have bitcoin, so much that they'd like to start spending it rather than buying/holding it (see Gresham's Law), its value has stabilised to a point that it can be used as a unit of account, and shops are therefore willing to price their goods/services in it.

Re: What happened with the Web Monetization API?

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is literally the use case for cryptocurrencies -- digital cash, not investments. In the more... questionably legal parts of the web, Monero is pretty common since you can't use regular banking anyway. The fees are pretty low, at around USD0.001 IIRC. There's also Nano (feeless) but it doesn't seem to be very popular, unfortunately.

> This is literally the use case for cryptocurrencies This is literally where cryptocurrencies do the worst...high transaction fees.

[deleted]

Re: What happened with the Web Monetization API?

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is literally the use case for cryptocurrencies -- digital cash, not investments. In the more... questionably legal parts of the web, Monero is pretty common since you can't use regular banking anyway. The fees are pretty low, at around USD0.001 IIRC. There's also Nano (feeless) but it doesn't seem to be very popular, unfortunately.

> This is literally the use case for cryptocurrencies -- digital cash, not investments. It should be, but the cryptocurrency crowd have internalized Austrian deflationary bullshit as a premise for their money system, it's just doomed to be unused as a payment mechanism and keep being used as securities. It's literally Economics illiteracy killing the use-case. Interestingly enough, the fact that they are used as secu…

Yeah, from my POV it just seems like the pro-deflation crowd simply proved economic experts correct. People start holding and hoarding instead of spending, while laughing at those who do (e.g. pizza guy).
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