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Morale plummets at Google as workers complain bosses are 'inept' and 'boring'

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Re: Morale plummets at Google as workers complain bosses are 'inept' and 'boring'

#281

Post by jjjjoe »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #250
jjjjoe wrote: post #204

The reason the word "inept" keeps coming up is just how opaque and senseless to the rank and file the January 2023 layoffs were. High performers, low performers, newest hires, most tenure: we saw all kinds of heads roll. I saw a team lose its sole TL with a decade+ of tenure on the team, then turn around and hire 4-6 people to try and catch up. A growing deployment team was actively hiring before and after it got a 6…

Making it an even percentage across the company is pretty common, it prevents middle management infighting and horse trading over who has to cut more and who gets to cut less. The actual decisions about which specific individuals, after the percentage is arrived at, however seems questionable if what you say is true.

This thinking is taught in MBA programs but does not map onto real businesses. If you're in the ice cube business and you made the profoundly unwise decision to set up vending machines in Inuit communities, you don't recover by laying off x% of both your Alaskan retail and Caribbean Cruise wholesale businesses.

Re: Morale plummets at Google as workers complain bosses are 'inept' and 'boring'

#282

Post by tdeck »

sanderjd wrote: post #213
andrewstuart wrote: post #14

Its amazing that the CEO of Google is still there after wholesale wrecking of developer trust over many many years.

I have myself found out very confusing that nobody ever seems to suggest that maybe Pichai isn't steering this ship very well...

People have been saying that for years. I left in 2020 and some people were saying that. Having almost no compelling new products and shutting down multiple high profile flops while dismantling the internal culture that many people appreciated is pretty hard to miss.

Re: Morale plummets at Google as workers complain bosses are 'inept' and 'boring'

#283

Post by scarmig »

refulgentis wrote: post #271
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm sorry for anyone at that company right now The average total compensation for an engineer is $250k-$350k/yr+ https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Software-Engineer-Sa... https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Google,Citrix,UKG,American%2...

It's hard to describe the pure absolute hell that can be working there, you'd be surprised how quickly the money becomes not worth it.

It all depends on the team, of course, but hell really isn't a good way to describe Google employment. Of the half dozen companies I've worked for, Google consistently offered better life quality than the others, even ignoring the money. (I'd go so far as to say that Google is almost too lax in how it treats employees.)

Re: Morale plummets at Google as workers complain bosses are 'inept' and 'boring'

#284

Post by citizenpaul »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #131

This is just so totally absurd that I’m surprised nobody has pushed back hard on this claim: “The Verge reported that CEO Sundar Pichai defended the layoffs and claimed that workers sometimes reach out to express gratitude for the cuts. “And I just want to clarify that, through these changes, people feel it on the ground and sometimes people write back and say, ‘Thank you for simplifying.’ Sometimes we have a complic…

>sometimes reach out to express gratitude for the cuts.

Sounds like Pichai has been drinking the linkedin toxic positivity kool-aid.

I would think that quote came from the onion 5 years ago.

Re: Morale plummets at Google as workers complain bosses are 'inept' and 'boring'

#285

Post by refulgentis »

scarmig wrote: post #283
refulgentis wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to describe the pure absolute hell that can be working there, you'd be surprised how quickly the money becomes not worth it.

It all depends on the team, of course, but hell really isn't a good way to describe Google employment. Of the half dozen companies I've worked for, Google consistently offered better life quality than the others, even ignoring the money. (I'd go so far as to say that Google is almost too lax in how it treats employees.)

Right, honestly I shouldn't have posted the 2 sentence version, and we'd need to have a beer and an hour to even begin understanding now that I started from there.

But, what I'd say in another flippant sentence, since I'm tempted again: exactly, and that's the problem.

I had a great time, will be forever proud and grateful, and there's more to life than work. But, it left me with a permanently jaundiced view of a lot of things I used to admire, and I saw the worst, most careless, self-centered, behavior I've seen in my life there.

Re: Morale plummets at Google as workers complain bosses are 'inept' and 'boring'

#286

Post by jjjjoe »

CamelCaseName wrote: post #241
willio58 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I saw a team lose its sole TL with a decade+ of tenure on the team, then turn around and hire 4-6 people to try and catch up. My god.. That's pure ineptitude and I'm sorry for anyone at that company right now. This basically sends the message "doesn't matter how good you are, we're going to spin the wheel every so often and if it lands on you you're out"

Is it possible they did this on purpose to expand their team size?

no.

Re: Morale plummets at Google as workers complain bosses are 'inept' and 'boring'

#287

Post by scarmig »

refulgentis wrote: post #285
scarmig wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It all depends on the team, of course, but hell really isn't a good way to describe Google employment. Of the half dozen companies I've worked for, Google consistently offered better life quality than the others, even ignoring the money. (I'd go so far as to say that Google is almost too lax in how it treats employees.)

Right, honestly I shouldn't have posted the 2 sentence version, and we'd need to have a beer and an hour to even begin understanding now that I started from there. But, what I'd say in another flippant sentence, since I'm tempted again: exactly, and that's the problem. I had a great time, will be forever proud and grateful, and there's more to life than work. But, it left me with a permanently jaundiced view of a lot…

I went through a progression, where I was first accepted to Google (genuinely one of the most exciting moments of my life), and I gradually fell into a deeper and deeper cynicism as I saw all my fantasies about how the world should work evaporate. Maybe it was just growing up. Even the "best company in the world that does no evil" is really just a bunch of profit-mongering assholes.

That said, so is the rest of the world, at least in my experience. So long as you go into it with open eyes about what it really is, Google is a pretty solid experience. You should never identify with it or sympathize with it, but if you approach it as a parasite hoping to extract as much value from you as it can, it offers a pretty great personal opportunity. You've just got to keep in mind that it is not your friend, it is not looking out for your best interests, and it is definitely not not evil.

Re: Morale plummets at Google as workers complain bosses are 'inept' and 'boring'

#288

Post by wolverine876 »

tdeck wrote: post #278
wolverine876 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not assume it's true; it's typical technique for responding to this kind of criticism - don't address the concerns, express complete rejection of them by claiming it's positive (layoffs are positive, if you only look at them from a certain angle), and most importantly demonstrate the conversation can't move forward - there's such a chasm between you and them that it's hopeless. It's a propaganda technique. It…

I wouldn't call powerful peoples' contempt for those less powerful than them a fad. That's been a thing for millenia.

> That's been a thing for millenia.

Somehow, the world changes day to day, year to year, generation to generation; somehow we change the world; and all despite the fact that, as people now copypasta everywhere, 'it's always been that way'. Do people say that at work meetings? Talking to investors? One wonders what all these entrepeneurs and engineers do? No wonder funding is drying up (I think that might be a literal problem - the despair, pessimism and cynicism reaching the executive suite).

We've always had carbon in the atmosphere, warfare, poverty, oppression, ... and people saying that _____ has always been that way.

Re: Morale plummets at Google as workers complain bosses are 'inept' and 'boring'

#289

Post by kccqzy »

utopcell wrote: post #137
blindriver wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stock is near all time highs and revenues keep growing. That's the only thing anyone outside of the employees care about. The only thing.

Is it though ? Even Meta's 5y return is higher than Google's, and that includes the enormous pivot-to-VR blunder drop.

These things could be true at the same time. Alphabet stock did reach an all-time-high recently, but its growth could still be slower than Microsoft, Apple, Meta, and several other large tech companies.

Re: Morale plummets at Google as workers complain bosses are 'inept' and 'boring'

#290

Post by kccqzy »

pseudosavant wrote: post #205
blindriver wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that revenues have been growing for years under him and the stock price has skyrocketed. I personally think he's a terrible CEO but it's impossible to argue to anyone that cares that he should be removed until at least revenue or the stock price drops.

That description perfectly fits another massive tech company CEO: Steve Balmer. Revenue tripled under him. But Microsoft's mindshare, brand image, influence, etc. all went down.

So is it appropriate to predict that Pichai will end his tenure as CEO of Google just like Balmer did, which was when he voluntarily quit ("retirement")?
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