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Morale plummets at Google as workers complain bosses are 'inept' and 'boring'

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Re: Morale plummets at Google as workers complain bosses are 'inept' and 'boring'

#271

Post by refulgentis »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #255
willio58 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I saw a team lose its sole TL with a decade+ of tenure on the team, then turn around and hire 4-6 people to try and catch up. My god.. That's pure ineptitude and I'm sorry for anyone at that company right now. This basically sends the message "doesn't matter how good you are, we're going to spin the wheel every so often and if it lands on you you're out"

> I'm sorry for anyone at that company right now The average total compensation for an engineer is $250k-$350k/yr+ https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Software-Engineer-Sa... https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Google,Citrix,UKG,American%2...

It's hard to describe the pure absolute hell that can be working there, you'd be surprised how quickly the money becomes not worth it.

Re: Morale plummets at Google as workers complain bosses are 'inept' and 'boring'

#272

Post by jjjjoe »

Ferret7446 wrote: post #258
jjjjoe wrote: post #204

The reason the word "inept" keeps coming up is just how opaque and senseless to the rank and file the January 2023 layoffs were. High performers, low performers, newest hires, most tenure: we saw all kinds of heads roll. I saw a team lose its sole TL with a decade+ of tenure on the team, then turn around and hire 4-6 people to try and catch up. A growing deployment team was actively hiring before and after it got a 6…

Was the TL in a high cost area, and the replacements junior SWEs in low cost areas? It's likely that they have a set budget for human resource (for lack of a better term), so they're cutting the "high cost items". Unfortunately, institutional knowledge/skill doesn't show up on a spreadsheet.

I've been on the receiving end of that kind of "reorganization" and this didn't look like that.

EDIT: Specifically, replacements were not "cheap".

Re: Morale plummets at Google as workers complain bosses are 'inept' and 'boring'

#273

Post by im3w1l »

uoaei wrote: post #174
gretch wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People always talk about these things as if they are mutually exclusive. In reality, there’s lot of opportunities that benefit all 3 of user, Google, and decision maker. it’s kind of the fundamental principle of trade/business - that both sides can proper in a deal.

That's nice in theory, but can you say that Google does things that actually achieve that trifecta?

Sure. It's just we tend to notice the tradeoffs and forget the win-wins. Every bug fixed and every performance improvement benefits all three.

Re: Morale plummets at Google as workers complain bosses are 'inept' and 'boring'

#274

Post by scialex »

uoaei wrote: post #174
gretch wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People always talk about these things as if they are mutually exclusive. In reality, there’s lot of opportunities that benefit all 3 of user, Google, and decision maker. it’s kind of the fundamental principle of trade/business - that both sides can proper in a deal.

That's nice in theory, but can you say that Google does things that actually achieve that trifecta?

YouTube, Google maps, Gmail ...

Re: Morale plummets at Google as workers complain bosses are 'inept' and 'boring'

#276

Post by htrp »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #131

This is just so totally absurd that I’m surprised nobody has pushed back hard on this claim: “The Verge reported that CEO Sundar Pichai defended the layoffs and claimed that workers sometimes reach out to express gratitude for the cuts. “And I just want to clarify that, through these changes, people feel it on the ground and sometimes people write back and say, ‘Thank you for simplifying.’ Sometimes we have a complic…

PR running interference as best they can

Re: Morale plummets at Google as workers complain bosses are 'inept' and 'boring'

#277

Post by scarmig »

jszymborski wrote: post #189
noqc wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Websearch is sputtering sure but that's normal after a challenge like chatgpt. If you think the complaint about google search is that it isn't as good as chatgpt, I think you might be not listening. The problem with google search is that it's worse than it was

I was puzzling over this argument as well. Is it possible GP was talking about SEO spam enabled by LLMs like ChatGPT? That's the most charitable read on it I can give it. Because I can guarantee you my problem with Google Search has nothing to do with chat assistants, and if that is sincerely your position, I'd seriously consider trying to find perspective.

LLMs are an obvious threat to web search, and guaranteed Google is already seeing their effects.

What they have done is given people an alternative to interacting with human knowledge via Google search. It was falling in quality before, but in the general case no one had an alternative (and so it would still generate the same revenues). But ChatGPT is not only a substitute but a superior product, so people actually move to it instead of kvetching about the decline.

Re: Morale plummets at Google as workers complain bosses are 'inept' and 'boring'

#278

Post by tdeck »

wolverine876 wrote: post #115
treprinum wrote: post #12

"And I just want to clarify that, through these changes, people feel it on the ground and sometimes people write back and say, ‘Thank you for simplifying.’" Is there any mandatory training for CEOs to first understand when somebody is kissing up, second evaluate how devastating is cherry picking rare positive feedback to the company's morale? I can't believe top people can be so inept.

I would not assume it's true; it's typical technique for responding to this kind of criticism - don't address the concerns, express complete rejection of them by claiming it's positive (layoffs are positive, if you only look at them from a certain angle), and most importantly demonstrate the conversation can't move forward - there's such a chasm between you and them that it's hopeless. It's a propaganda technique. It…

I wouldn't call powerful peoples' contempt for those less powerful than them a fad. That's been a thing for millenia.

Re: Morale plummets at Google as workers complain bosses are 'inept' and 'boring'

#279

Post by ipdashc »

refulgentis wrote: post #271
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm sorry for anyone at that company right now The average total compensation for an engineer is $250k-$350k/yr+ https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Google-Software-Engineer-Sa... https://www.levels.fyi/?compare=Google,Citrix,UKG,American%2...

It's hard to describe the pure absolute hell that can be working there, you'd be surprised how quickly the money becomes not worth it.

This feels excessive... ? It's Google, not a coal mine.

Re: Morale plummets at Google as workers complain bosses are 'inept' and 'boring'

#280

Post by pb7 »

dekhn wrote: post #68
wtracy wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a lot of investors are excited about Waymo, so I assume the executives are as well. I don't have any insight into what the experience is like on the actual engineering team, though.

waymo isn't part of google

Sundar is CEO and it's part of $GOOG.
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