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As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

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Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#81

Post by Spooky23 »

zmgsabst wrote: post #11
shiroiuma wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you think everyone should just allow Russia to take over any country it wants?

No — but perhaps we could have negotiated a peace during a conference at Minsk a decade ago or in Feb 2022 at the outbreak of hostilities, rather than frantically send Boris Johnson to subvert it. Russia has consistently angled for Ukraine to be a neutral border between two blocs to facilitate trade — and that clearly would have been better for Ukraine than a senseless slaughter which destroyed a generation, by maimi…

Thanks for the lesson, comrade.

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#83

Post by Animats »

The US government-owned facilities are not the only US source of 155mm rounds. NAMMO [1] is a major manufacturer, and they have a facility in Mesa, AZ. Here's their marketing video for 155mm rounds.[2] Nammo's management complains that they are being offered 3-4 year contracts, and they need 10-15 year contracts to build new factories. Peacetime demand for large-caliber ammo is very low, so when there's not a war on, factories are mothballed.

BAE and Rheinmetall also make 155mm rounds, and many of those are going to Ukraine. Israel is unhappy that the US stores of ammo in Israel are being sent to Ukraine, and is ordering domestic manufacture from Elbit.

The article doesn't make a clear distinction between the foundry and machining steps in the process. The first part involves casting and forging molten metal, and the second is ordinary machining. They don't have to be carried out in the same plant. Either or both can be outsourced separately.

Filling, where explosives go into shells, is done in dedicated plants with lots of separation between buildings, buried storage bunkers, and many other safety precautions. That's the dangerous part but not the bottleneck.

Here's a modern 155mm shell forging plant in Germany.[3]

[1] https://www.nammo.com/product/our-products/ammunition/large-...

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrUV1uktRZg

[3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNtmrYeBwWQ

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#84

Post by BlueTemplar »

MilStdJunkie wrote: post #71
BlueTemplar wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same as for : > My solace is that in a real conflict, all of that red tape would be put to the side and people can get about building things. That's just not going to happen. A real conflict would involve nukes, and the war would be quickly over. I doubt that something close to Vietnam can happen again either. (And even for a 2nd Vietnam, I doubt that any significant artillery would be used when, as you point out, mi…

I might be a hopeless optimist, but I don't think a USN/USAF/USMC vs PLAAF in SCS/Taiwan situation would escalate to nukes. At least, I don't think it's likely . Definitely a nonzero chance, maybe a coin toss, but Taiwan isn't core territory for either Power. Invasion, now . . well, there's the magic power that comes with having 'em. No one invades you, ever. Also,outside factors could change the math here, like a me…

But that only means that the US would give up on Taiwan before the fight would get any serious (from USA's point of view).

I also kind of doubt that China is going to try, at least in the next decade or so, because those so far irreplaceable chip factories are almost certainly booby trapped and are a critical piece of the global economy, so China would be sabotaging itself first. (And Xi has probably a long way to go for Putin-like mistakes.)

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#85

Post by dmoy »

tiku wrote: post #3
ganeshkrishnan wrote: post #2

[flagged]

Our continent was free of war for a long time, never would have guessed Russia would attack something almost European. With asshole countries like that, we need it. And then we wonder why the alien's won't show themselves haha.

> continent was free of war for a long time

Was it though? Within the last 30 years you've got Yugoslavia, Kosovo, Russia/Georgia, and the Russia/Chechnya civil stuff.

I guess no super lengthy wars in 20 years, sure.

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#86

Post by rasz »

zmgsabst wrote: post #11
shiroiuma wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you think everyone should just allow Russia to take over any country it wants?

No — but perhaps we could have negotiated a peace during a conference at Minsk a decade ago or in Feb 2022 at the outbreak of hostilities, rather than frantically send Boris Johnson to subvert it. Russia has consistently angled for Ukraine to be a neutral border between two blocs to facilitate trade — and that clearly would have been better for Ukraine than a senseless slaughter which destroyed a generation, by maimi…

I want to come to your house, steal all of your stuff and pets, then burn it down. Lets negotiate! Lets find a happy middle ground, what do you say? Oh and by the way Im already living in your attic and regularly pee in your fridge.

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#87

Post by barbacoa »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #40
kspacewalk2 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fine pacifist attitude to have when someone else did the fighting and the dying and the building up a military industrial complex for you. Ukrainians, for example, don't have that option, which is why a ton of IT guys there are starting and joining all sorts of miltech startups, volunteer groups, etc. Their families and their future depend on using their talents to build yucky weapons they don't want to be on the o…

Yeah, these pacifist-style comments are really tone deaf and out of touch. Yes, we'd all prefer peace and leaving each other alone, but if some other nation comes to kill your countrymen and replace your democracy with a puppet, suddenly just relying on pacifist ideals doesn't work well anymore. Most of the time, these commenters don't want to engage with reality as it currently exists. If you ask them what exactly y…

This comment is peak 2004 neo-conservatives logic.

Ukraine is fighting a bloody attrition land war in Russia. They are currently losing and will likely fair worse as time goes on.

Mind you Ukraine could have prevented all of this if they had decided not to break the Minsk agreement which would have ended the conflict in Donbas. Instead the US and EU used it to buy for time so they could further arm Ukraine for war with Russia.

This conflict has been an unmitigated disaster for the people of Ukraine. Entire generation of youth killed or crippled. Millions fled the country and may never return.

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#88

Post by rasz »

BlueTemplar wrote: post #84
MilStdJunkie wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be a hopeless optimist, but I don't think a USN/USAF/USMC vs PLAAF in SCS/Taiwan situation would escalate to nukes. At least, I don't think it's likely . Definitely a nonzero chance, maybe a coin toss, but Taiwan isn't core territory for either Power. Invasion, now . . well, there's the magic power that comes with having 'em. No one invades you, ever. Also,outside factors could change the math here, like a me…

But that only means that the US would give up on Taiwan before the fight would get any serious (from USA's point of view). I also kind of doubt that China is going to try, at least in the next decade or so, because those so far irreplaceable chip factories are almost certainly booby trapped and are a critical piece of the global economy, so China would be sabotaging itself first. (And Xi has probably a long way to go…

China is steadily funding Fab R&D. They already managed to get from zero to somewhat modern ram and NAND (YMTC). YMTC is bad https://goughlui.com/2023/10/10/psa-ssds-with-ymtc-flash-pro..., but _very_ cheap so eventually will improve and start taking over more and more volume. In couple of years China will get to the point erasing UMC/TSMC does give them advantage.

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#90

Post by toss1 »

consumer451 wrote: post #17
zmgsabst wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No — but perhaps we could have negotiated a peace during a conference at Minsk a decade ago or in Feb 2022 at the outbreak of hostilities, rather than frantically send Boris Johnson to subvert it. Russia has consistently angled for Ukraine to be a neutral border between two blocs to facilitate trade — and that clearly would have been better for Ukraine than a senseless slaughter which destroyed a generation, by maimi…

Let me skip over a bunch of your points and just get to the end. Would any of your theoretical compromises have satisfied the Cold Warriors in the Kremlin? These people literally believe that NATO is coming to invade Moscow. How do you negotiate with someone who lives in a place so disconnected from reality?

It is worse than that - No one in the Kremlin believes that NATO is coming for them. There are many proofs, but one is that Russia PULLED troops away from the Finnish border when Finland joined.

That line is merely one of dozens of bullshirt excuses they trot out to claim victimhood and "justify" their relentless aggression.

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