Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A conspiracy to kill IE6 (2019)

blog.chriszacharias.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 113 posts

Re: A conspiracy to kill IE6 (2019)

#81

Post by ajsnigrutin »

dang wrote: post #29

Related: A Conspiracy to Kill IE6 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38210439 - Nov 2023 (1 comment) A Conspiracy to Kill IE6 (2019) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28725293 - Oct 2021 (80 comments) A Conspiracy to Kill IE6 at YouTube - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28655890 - Sept 2021 (2 comments) A Conspiracy to Kill IE6 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19798678 - May 2019 (363 comments)

https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=chriszacharias.com

Even more :) this gets reposted here a lot... probably by people still traumatized by fixing IE6 stuff :)

Re: A conspiracy to kill IE6 (2019)

#82

Post by antod »

ttfkam wrote: post #40
ksherlock wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about IE, one thing anyway, is that it's CSS support, box model, etc, was broken and non standard. So you would need to exploit CSS parser bugs to give IE a separate CSS, use DXImageTransformFilter to make png transparency work, etc. Maybe by WebKit you mean Blink and by Blink you mean V8, because when somebody does a "Show HN: something that doesn't work in Safari or FireFox" it's usually a javascript prob…

I came to hate IE with every fiber of my being, but let's call a spade a spade here: IE basically invented modern CSS. Netscape 3/4 and IE 3/4 had very different views on how web pages should be dynamic and how they should be styled. IE championed CSS and the DOM. Netscape was fixated on bgcolor, font tags, etc. Netscape introduced the tag. IE just made every tag a potential layer. Remember AJAX? Loading content from…

You're completely correct that IE 4.0 - 6.0 was kicking Netscape's butt in terms of CSS support (not difficult as Netscape 4.x was truly awful). But not quite right that it was the best or only until 2003.

Opera could probably claim best CSS in the late 90s. And by 2003, Netscape 6.0 & 7.0 and Mozilla Suite 1.0 would have better CSS 2 support than IE 6.

Re: A conspiracy to kill IE6 (2019)

#83

Post by jimmaswell »

tannerellen wrote: post #74
jimmaswell wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safari is the one and only browser I continue to need to write special extra CSS for.

This is a red flag that you are trying to use non standard CSS or you are trying to use things that are so bleeding edge that you are requiring even evergreen browsers to have been restarted and updated very recently. Set your target to any CSS that has been around for about a year or so and is based on standards and you shouldn't need to be writing anything different for specific browsers. I haven't had to target a…

Here's one example, nothing bleeding edge or weird at all. https://dev.to/snowleo208/how-to-fix-popups-scrolling-on-saf...

Re: A conspiracy to kill IE6 (2019)

#84

Post by jimmaswell »

callalex wrote: post #71
jimmaswell wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safari has been a huge pain for me as a web dev for its nonstandard parsing/implementation of basic CSS and requiring special cases made for it for things like modal focus/scrolling, nothing to do with Google or privacy whatsoever.

Is it non-standard, or non-exactly-like-Chrome? There’s a difference.

Example: https://dev.to/snowleo208/how-to-fix-popups-scrolling-on-saf...

Re: A conspiracy to kill IE6 (2019)

#85

Post by [deleted] »

ttfkam wrote: post #40
ksherlock wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about IE, one thing anyway, is that it's CSS support, box model, etc, was broken and non standard. So you would need to exploit CSS parser bugs to give IE a separate CSS, use DXImageTransformFilter to make png transparency work, etc. Maybe by WebKit you mean Blink and by Blink you mean V8, because when somebody does a "Show HN: something that doesn't work in Safari or FireFox" it's usually a javascript prob…

I came to hate IE with every fiber of my being, but let's call a spade a spade here: IE basically invented modern CSS. Netscape 3/4 and IE 3/4 had very different views on how web pages should be dynamic and how they should be styled. IE championed CSS and the DOM. Netscape was fixated on bgcolor, font tags, etc. Netscape introduced the tag. IE just made every tag a potential layer. Remember AJAX? Loading content from…

[deleted]

Re: A conspiracy to kill IE6 (2019)

#86

Post by Izkata »

ksherlock wrote: post #31
cogman10 wrote: post #4

One of the best things that's happened to the web is all browsers moving over to an evergreen model of distribution. IE was such a cancer on the internet, everyone in the bad old days programmed to the lowest common denominator (IE6, 7, or 8). Even while brand new features and standards were widely adopted by everyone else. One of the worst things that's happened is nearly everyone converging on using webkit to rende…

The thing about IE, one thing anyway, is that it's CSS support, box model, etc, was broken and non standard. So you would need to exploit CSS parser bugs to give IE a separate CSS, use DXImageTransformFilter to make png transparency work, etc. Maybe by WebKit you mean Blink and by Blink you mean V8, because when somebody does a "Show HN: something that doesn't work in Safari or FireFox" it's usually a javascript prob…

> The thing about IE, one thing anyway, is that it's CSS support, box model, etc, was broken and non standard.

Box model in particular was because they used the much saner border-box instead of the official spec's content-box, which was what everyone else used. You could make the other browsers act like IE by specifying it with box-sizing in the CSS, or from IE8 onwards you could make IE act like the others.

Re: A conspiracy to kill IE6 (2019)

#87

Post by pompino »

geor9e wrote: post #78
pompino wrote: post #57

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Free_Software_Definition#T... >The freedom to run the program as you wish, for any purpose (freedom 0). That's pretty wild that a direct competitor targeted a browser based on a few random engineers's personal views. In 2024, privacy being front and center, I wonder if its even feasible to kill off Google. They are slowly becoming a bully and a menace to society (unless you're one of…

They targeted IE 6 or older by recommending folks install IE 8, Firefox 3, or Chrome 4, shown in random order. Since Firefox and Chrome were self-updating, they didn't have the problem of obsolete versions floating around.

Microsoft was already offering users to upgrade to IE8. Users chose IE6 for whatever reason. Most likely because non-technical users didn't give a shit, or maybe they were stuck on IE6 due to ActiveX or other compatibility issues. Google faked a "we will be phasing out support" screen to trick users into changing the browser. All this talk of open source and "open" this and "open" that, and yet they still want to manipulate the user. How about you let the users choose? And if they choose wrong so be it. I guess it is understandable given they are in the advertising business. Maybe Google has others' fooled, but they haven't fooled everyone yet.

Re: A conspiracy to kill IE6 (2019)

#88

Post by gregmac »

cogman10 wrote: post #60
ttfkam wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came to hate IE with every fiber of my being, but let's call a spade a spade here: IE basically invented modern CSS. Netscape 3/4 and IE 3/4 had very different views on how web pages should be dynamic and how they should be styled. IE championed CSS and the DOM. Netscape was fixated on bgcolor, font tags, etc. Netscape introduced the tag. IE just made every tag a potential layer. Remember AJAX? Loading content from…

What was bad about IE, more than anything else, was how tightly integrated to the OS it was. Running windows 2000? You can only run IE6. Running windows XP? IE8 is your limit. This was particularly problematic because MS struggled MIGHTILY to get Vista out the door. It was a decade of really terrible IE which was pushed out longer due to Vista's poor performance and stability. Meanwhile, you could install firefox and…

I think the update experience was a small part of it, but for me the process model of Chrome was the main thing that made me eventually switch. Crappy javascript on one tab would lock up the entire browser -- a thing that just simply doesn't happen in Chrome.

Re: A conspiracy to kill IE6 (2019)

#89

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

breathen wrote: post #25
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the worst things that's happened is nearly everyone converging on using webkit to render everything. Feels like slowly stepping backwards into the days when everyone writes for webkit rather than a more open internet. WebKit and Blink are separate engines.

...sort of...

They diverged from a common starting point, but they did diverge, pulled apart by wildly different priorities, contributors, and usecases.

Re: A conspiracy to kill IE6 (2019)

#90

Post by ozim »

cogman10 wrote: post #4

One of the best things that's happened to the web is all browsers moving over to an evergreen model of distribution. IE was such a cancer on the internet, everyone in the bad old days programmed to the lowest common denominator (IE6, 7, or 8). Even while brand new features and standards were widely adopted by everyone else. One of the worst things that's happened is nearly everyone converging on using webkit to rende…

Browser engine for me is like a Linux kernel for me.

Everyone should be banding together to work on one. Not making a separate one each year. We have js libraries and frameworks for that. Of course some innovations that requires to be done in engine won’t happen as fast - but on the other hand amount of innovation in software that runs in browsers will be much higher.

We saw that with IE “innovations” of Microsoft blocked decades of innovations in web apps.

Post reply on HN