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As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

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Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#41
post #4

[flagged]

All of us tech people have the military to thank for the creation of this industry, lest anyone forgets.

So because the Department of Defense invented packet-switching networks fifty years ago, we owe them fealty? Respect? Hitler designed the original Volkswagen Beetle. Who cares?

All of us tech people used to know a fascist when we smelled one, now some of us lick their boots for a paycheck.

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#42
post #6

This reminds me of the excellent series "Blueprint for Armageddon" in Dan Carlin's Hardcore History podcast [1]. It's about the First World War. WWI tends to get less attention than WW2 and while there are good reasons why we focus on the atrocities of WW2, in some ways WWI was far more devastating. The artillery production mentioned here reminds me of how scales changed from the beginning to the end of the war. At t…

I just read that complete page on Barrages. I never realized it had gotten so sophisticated even by 1917.

We see movies where artillery is always just raining down from the sky. It seemed so random.

It blows my mind we had complex patterns and essenstially formations and defensive walls and boxes to protect a position and just wow.

That must have been hell on the receiving end.

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#43
post #6

This reminds me of the excellent series "Blueprint for Armageddon" in Dan Carlin's Hardcore History podcast [1]. It's about the First World War. WWI tends to get less attention than WW2 and while there are good reasons why we focus on the atrocities of WW2, in some ways WWI was far more devastating. The artillery production mentioned here reminds me of how scales changed from the beginning to the end of the war. At t…

Over the last thirty years or so, it's been increasingly popular to see WW1 and WW2 as the same conflict, but with a pause for populations to stabilize and stocks to be rebuilt. It's sometimes called "The Second Thirty Years' War", although I feel that labelling is misleading, as is, potentially, the core thesis. Careful reading of the diplomatic history illustrates that WW2, despite our popular notions, was not enti…

> by the same intellectual framework that allowed them to dominate the rest of the world

People consisted other nations and ethnicities subhuman as long as they existed. Europe was, AFAIK, the first place on Earth that (1) considered subjugated people equal before the law (if they converted), (2) banned slavery and (3) imposed slavery ban on other nations.

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you think everyone should just allow Russia to take over any country it wants?

No — but perhaps we could have negotiated a peace during a conference at Minsk a decade ago or in Feb 2022 at the outbreak of hostilities, rather than frantically send Boris Johnson to subvert it. Russia has consistently angled for Ukraine to be a neutral border between two blocs to facilitate trade — and that clearly would have been better for Ukraine than a senseless slaughter which destroyed a generation, by maimi…

I watched a news segment where a former government official close to Putin said people don't understand him. Putin goes into incredible detail when planning military campaigns. For Georgia and Ukraine Putin had been planning the attacks for decades. Plus he has a Plan B, Plan C etc. all that he wants he's decided already years ago and is not interested in anything else. You missed your chance for peace talks by a decade or two.

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#45
post #16

I don't think it's a "problem" that we don't have enough munitions to launch at other humans. It's a testament to our time that there aren't incentives for manufacturing death.

It's a huge problem when an army with a larger amount wants to take your land, abduct your children, kill anyone who speaks and writes in your language, and tortures all your leaders to death. All told, better to have fewer shells in general, but in particular, one must have at least as many shells as the murderous invaders that want to kill you. And towards that end, the more that Ukraine destroys Russia's military,…

I don't think enough people understand quite what Russia has in store for Ukrainians in case they win. For example, some think Bucha or the mass graves in Izyum are one offs. But those who speak Ukrainian or Russian can find dozens of interviews with Ukrainian POWs who have come back in exchanges, and after watching them it becomes quite clear the Russians have tortured and/or brutally murdered many thousands of captives, and have a clear game plan what to do with anyone who isn't completely submissive and has any shred of Ukrainian identity in them once they occupy an area.

But even aside from what happens to Ukrainians, if this goes Russia's way it will embolden many other regimes to solve their problems through fascism and colonial invasions too. Pacifism is very nice and weapons of war are absolutely an evil thing, but if you don't have them your pacifism quickly becomes appeasement and/or submission when someone who's not as nice as you decides they're gonna go ahead and institute a few changes in their neighbourhood.

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#46
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No — but perhaps we could have negotiated a peace during a conference at Minsk a decade ago or in Feb 2022 at the outbreak of hostilities, rather than frantically send Boris Johnson to subvert it. Russia has consistently angled for Ukraine to be a neutral border between two blocs to facilitate trade — and that clearly would have been better for Ukraine than a senseless slaughter which destroyed a generation, by maimi…

>but perhaps we could have negotiated a peace during a conference at Minsk a decade ago or in Feb 2022 at the outbreak of hostilities Ukraine negotiated nonstop with Russia from 2014 (when Russia first seized some of their territory) until literally 1 week before the invasion in 2022. It was 8 years of nonstop negotiations, brokered by France & Germany. I'm always amazed more people don't know about this. How did neg…

What do you think about the conclusions of this piece published by a former UN official, a former NATO military official, and an academic?

https://braveneweurope.com/michael-von-der-schulenburg-hajo-...

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#47
post #16

I don't think it's a "problem" that we don't have enough munitions to launch at other humans. It's a testament to our time that there aren't incentives for manufacturing death.

It's a huge problem when an army with a larger amount wants to take your land, abduct your children, kill anyone who speaks and writes in your language, and tortures all your leaders to death. All told, better to have fewer shells in general, but in particular, one must have at least as many shells as the murderous invaders that want to kill you. And towards that end, the more that Ukraine destroys Russia's military,…

[deleted]

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#48
Rather than come up with a new manufacturing process for the existing munition design, why not develop a new munition (presumably with a new scalable process) that can be fired from existing weapons?

No rounds seems like a worse condition than having equal-or-poorer performing rounds.

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#49
post #16

I don't think it's a "problem" that we don't have enough munitions to launch at other humans. It's a testament to our time that there aren't incentives for manufacturing death.

In the case of Russia vs NATO, the lack is also because Russia blew up a large ammunition depot inside the Czech Republic in preparation for the invasion of Ukraine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_...

For comparison when they say they are only producing 28k units a month that’s over 1,200 tons of artillery shells a month.

Reading that it says 150 tons of explosives and this happened 10 years ago. So, not particularly relevant today.

Re: As much as you ever wanted to know about 155M artillery shell production

#50
In the commodities business there’s an old saw that long-term contracts solve supply problems, and spot prices solve inventory problems

And this seems like a perfect example of the first part of that.

The thing I didn’t see was how much it would cost to build a facility that produces x/k rounds a month.

I find it hard to imagine these facilities are that expensive (in the context of US defense spending) so it makes me feel there was a something else going on here…

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