Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's the difference between being blocked by a wall (with 'no trespassing' sign) and being blocked by a muddy field. Some people find the former more stressful; some the latter.
Which one is which in this metaphor? Or is it just that they're different? My guess is that the wall is the startup, but I'm not quite sure.
How to hire low experience, high potential people
171–180 of 433 posts
Re: How to hire low experience, high potential people
#172Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's a nauseating bias here against people who've had horrific childhoods. "Let me tell you about the years of physical/emotional/sexual abuse I've suffered though." That's just not going to happen - and if it did happen the interviewer is probably not going to come away with "What a brave person to overcome all of that!" but "What a damaged person, I don't need them around". Well done, you've weeded out people wh…
> bias here against people who've had horrific childhoods. I didn't read this as a bias against significant prior challenges, in childhood or after. I certainly had such challenges and I've always thought most people have. Since the author's stated goal is identifying high potential, early career candidates in the absence of prior success or obvious metrics, it seems essential to look for resilience. To me, understan…
Just what the hell do you think emotional and physical abuse is? An overly strict parent? Perhaps you'd like to hear about what me and my siblings went through. It wasn't 'a challenge', it was a fucking deliberate attempt to destroy us as people and it succeeded. You want details? [Edit: don't ask for details]
Re: How to hire low experience, high potential people
#173> Disagree and commit: I hate that this is such a common thought process. This is something that makes sense for soldiers in the military. But outside of this context (being a low-information cog in a gigantic machine), it's terrible. If you can't convince domain experts that the plan is sound, then maybe it's a bad plan. Honestly, disagree and commit goes against my... > Theory for excellence.
If the group is saying X is the right way to go and you’ve already given your reason why you think Y, you should disagree and commit. If you sit there complaining for weeks that they should be doing Y without any new information, you’re just being a shitty teammate and dragging everyone down.
The main point for the commit part is setting aside your ego to move the team forward. Most decisions are two way doors. If X doesn’t work out then try Y but don’t complain, work less hard, or sabotage because you didn’t get your way.
One big exception is if someone is making a decision that goes against company principles or morals.
Re: How to hire low experience, high potential people
#174> “Tell me about you. If your life was a book, give me the chapter titles from your birth till now.” Once you’ve gotten the overview, dive into each “chapter” and plumb the depths for their real stories. Go back to their childhood! I learn a lot about their grit and commitment to excellence from their basketball obsession or maybe their experience caring for a dying parent. I don't think I'd be comfortable sharing th…
There's a nauseating bias here against people who've had horrific childhoods. "Let me tell you about the years of physical/emotional/sexual abuse I've suffered though." That's just not going to happen - and if it did happen the interviewer is probably not going to come away with "What a brave person to overcome all of that!" but "What a damaged person, I don't need them around". Well done, you've weeded out people wh…
This person is out of touch in such a bad way. Why would you put someone through such a cringeworthy exercise?
Re: How to hire low experience, high potential people
#175You can have your run book. Your check points. Your procedure and tools. Still, you're going to hit, surprise, a 1000/1 loss rate in the long run.
At least from my point of view and past experience with hiring, young, inexperienced, but looking like a good fit.
It's ok to hire people with low experience, and use them like such a resource while they acquire hands-on experience (and that is not 2 months).
The real issue with this, is companies trying to cover experienced roles, with low experience people, from day one.
People without experience, won't be able to do some things, in the same way than experienced people.
And those more motivated, will make serious harm to projects.
And those non-technical roles with decision power, listening to them (low experience) like if they were experienced, and pretending that they know the future problems of what they are doing/talking, will increase the effect.
If you don't have money to invest in the strongest, or to hire experienced people... could you then put your money on an asset with dubious results and with a high probability of causing serious issues?
It's ok, then play with your few money, the careers of the rest of the team, and your startup future, in the casino. You're of course free of doing it.
IMHO The same way that you don't execute a random binary coming from a hacking forum, or a suspicious email, in the laptop of your bank accounts... you don't try to cover roles requiring experience and results, with low experience people.
You do not deploy a random app, with random unsupervised code, into production, right?
You hire low experience people, if:
1) You are willing to waste time of other (more expensive) persons into teach them a lot of important things
2) You have experienced people willing to do that
3) You have procedures and projects, to isolate their harm and what they do
4) You have procedures, to evaluate the evolution of those persons, during the months/years that you will be wasting the time of experienced people into teaching them those caveats that they don't know, or that will appear by first time in their face 11 months/years latter
5) You're not going to promote them before they are ready, for example if one experienced person from the same team, leaves the company. See point 4. You promote them when they are ready. Not by other reasons.
Signed: a past victim of companies trying to lowcost the teams with low experience people
Re: How to hire low experience, high potential people
#176More like /r/LinkedinLunatics than HackerNews material.
Re: How to hire low experience, high potential people
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's unclear to me how "non-engineering types" can make use of stories about e.g. "caring for a dying parent" in the context of a job interview. I mean, can anyone (layperson or not) actually "psychologically evaluate" someone based on anecdotes from their life? I also worry that this stuff can be gamed. If an applicant gains an advantage by telling a story about how he "cared for his dying aunt while finishing a deg…
I have a ton of stories of a "cared for his dying aunt..." variety, 99% of the time when asked about personal stuff in the interview I am forced to lie, because otherwise the interviewer is coming out of that deeply scarred. So my perspective is that anyone who tells you a "cared for his dying aunt..." story is full of shit and definitely is playing you.
However, for sake of argument, given that your story is true, shouldn't it also be evidence that those _not_ talking about "caring for dying aunt" is lying too? I mean, you told a story that didn't involve caring for a dying aunt, and that was a lie. We actually don't have evidence (either within your story, or in general I suppose?) that anyone would make up a story about a dying aunt to an interviewer...?
Re: How to hire low experience, high potential people
#178This is true, they are a lot of work to polish. Overall, this hiring advice seems to apply to larger companies, where people have the time to polish these 'diamonds'. I would not follow it if working in a startup.
I've naively hired 'diamonds in the rough' at smaller companies and startups before. While they were 'diamonds' and were very creative, often offering unique solutions to problems, they ultimately took so much effort and time to mentor that they were never able to reach their full potential. The lack of experience also meant things took longer than needed. In hindsight, my lack of time to mentor effectively was probably the issue.
At a smaller team, say sub 10 people, I'd be reluctant to hire a 'diamond in the rough' again for that stage.
Re: How to hire low experience, high potential people
#179I'm a little grumpy about this "diamonds in the rough" shit. I'm more concerned about what's lurking in the diamond mines. If people can demonstrate that they can do the work, I don't much need to know if "they have a chip on their shoulders". More generally: I have zero faith in anyone's ability to learn much from psychological interviews.
Re: How to hire low experience, high potential people
#180> “Tell me about you. If your life was a book, give me the chapter titles from your birth till now.” Once you’ve gotten the overview, dive into each “chapter” and plumb the depths for their real stories. Go back to their childhood! I learn a lot about their grit and commitment to excellence from their basketball obsession or maybe their experience caring for a dying parent. I don't think I'd be comfortable sharing th…
There's a nauseating bias here against people who've had horrific childhoods. "Let me tell you about the years of physical/emotional/sexual abuse I've suffered though." That's just not going to happen - and if it did happen the interviewer is probably not going to come away with "What a brave person to overcome all of that!" but "What a damaged person, I don't need them around". Well done, you've weeded out people wh…
"If he hasn't struggled, then what does he really know about anything at all?"