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Interview with Andreas Kling of Serenity OS (2022)

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Re: Interview with Andreas Kling of Serenity OS (2022)

#21
post #8

For those looking to try their hand at building an OS, there's Linux From Scratch. https://www.linuxfromscratch.org/ I failed tremendously, but I had a lot of incorrect ideas about what makes an operating system go. The learning experience was worth it, though.

This is building an OS as in the way people build a PC for themselves. TFA is more about creating an OS.

Re: Interview with Andreas Kling of Serenity OS (2022)

#22
I love this but just looking at the comments - while admittedly cool, implementing your own OS isn't black magic or particularly arcane knowledge; sure it's a whole lot of work where you're often reimplementing the wheel, but not outside the realm of any reasonably skilled graduate I would think.

Re: Interview with Andreas Kling of Serenity OS (2022)

#23

I just wonder how much of the truly exceptional engineering in today's software was done by people on drugs (yes, 'ADHD' medication counts). I fully expect it to be a significant chunk, but I hope it's not the majority.

Core to Andreas' story is that he did his engineering as an escape from drugs, not the other way around as you allude to.

He was a pretty high level professional programmer before he started coding serenity as therapy. I don't know the exact timeline of course.

Re: Interview with Andreas Kling of Serenity OS (2022)

#24
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this "hacky"? I've long wondered why databases need to be on filesystems, other than simply convenience. If you think about it, a filesystem is, itself, basically a database (not a relational one of course). So it seems like you could improve performance a lot by eliminating the filesystem layer and going straight to direct disk access. Also, how this would be done would probably change depending on whether yo…

>I've long wondered why databases need to be on filesystems, other than simply convenience. [...]So it seems like you could improve performance a lot by eliminating the filesystem layer and going straight to direct disk access. Both Oracle RDBMS and older versions of Microsoft SQL Server had the option to use "raw disk devices" / "raw partitions" instead of the filesystem. It had some obvious justifications such as a…

Oracle also had (has?) the capability to split up database volumes on raw disks based on I/O load.

Re: Interview with Andreas Kling of Serenity OS (2022)

#25

I just wonder how much of the truly exceptional engineering in today's software was done by people on drugs (yes, 'ADHD' medication counts). I fully expect it to be a significant chunk, but I hope it's not the majority.

> 'ADHD'

I'm confused by the use of quotes. Do you think ADHD is a made-up thing?

Re: Interview with Andreas Kling of Serenity OS (2022)

#27
post #2

I'm increasingly tempted to try my hand at making a toy OS - or at least a kernel. There's a few things I desperately want an operating system to do: 1. Have either database-like transactions or (at a minimum) write barriers for file operations. The current filesystem semantics are terrible for databases and other applications which need to not corrupt their data after a crash. fsync() is too heavy, because you can't…

So soft updates and kqueue? :)

Re: Interview with Andreas Kling of Serenity OS (2022)

#28

I just wonder how much of the truly exceptional engineering in today's software was done by people on drugs (yes, 'ADHD' medication counts). I fully expect it to be a significant chunk, but I hope it's not the majority.

I suspect whether it's a majority or not depends on how you count caffeine.

Re: Interview with Andreas Kling of Serenity OS (2022)

#29
post #18
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're on the right path! My area of interest is actually making messaging (a-la-Smalltalk/Erlang) the root idea everything is built upon, rather than the file stream. The file metaphor made sense in the 1960, not in an ultra-networked world of heterogeneous CPUs. IMO, communication should be the basis of computing. Which also means inventing a language to build this novel paradigm. As Dan Ingalls said, an operating…

You might enjoy http://synit.org/ , perhaps. Heavily inspired by both Smalltalk and Erlang. (It's my own wee quixotic project btw)

That looks very interesting, thanks for sharing! Somehow I had never heard of it. Time for a Show HN?

Re: Interview with Andreas Kling of Serenity OS (2022)

#30
post #22

I love this but just looking at the comments - while admittedly cool, implementing your own OS isn't black magic or particularly arcane knowledge; sure it's a whole lot of work where you're often reimplementing the wheel, but not outside the realm of any reasonably skilled graduate I would think.

Writing an OS is not any harder than writing a database or a programming language. The complexity lies in how far do you want to go with it.

While not black-magic, dealing with hardware and its quirks is a different skillset than writing React logic. A bug might need a reboot, or in some rare cases with terrible hardware, turning it into a paperweight.

In fact, I believe that learning to write low-level code for simple hardware (say, an Arduino or a RP2040), is a smoother path for a complete newbie than learning the massively complex frontend world, and provides much better foundational knowledge.

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