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Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

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Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#21

Post by caldarons »

throwaway71271 wrote: post #7

Schools+laptops is absolutely crazy. The amount of incompetence is beyond reason. My daughter(12)'s keyboard got broken, now she is afraid she wont be able to take her exam with an external keyboard because there is a spyware extension they use called 'safe exam browser' that might block her computer when she plugs the keyboard. Most of the kids are just using it to snapchat during class. I will honestly prefer to ju…

As someone who went to a high school (Italy) where in the first two years each student had a laptop they could use in the classroom, I agree that having a computer per student is a bad idea.

In my experience, what ended up happening was that pupils who already knew their way around a computer didn't really get any extra benefit from using cmputers in the classroom and those who didn't like using computers hated it even more when forced to write out an assignment on a keyboard as supposed to handwriting.

Most importantly though, they were a HUGE distraction. Any time the lesson got boring because the teacher wasn't good or just not good at getting the kids engaged in the lesson (which happened quite often sadly, but that is another discussion) we would all just start playing on the computers. Some kids came to school just to play videogames and barely learned anything.

Now, some of these issues (like bad professors, smart kids getting bored because of slow pace of lessons) have always been present in every school all over the world but I do think that having tech in the classroom just makes things worse, as now even those who would have normally followed the lesson are tempted to just turn on their computer and pretend to take notes when really they are playing Candy crush. It's bad enough being a teenager and being bombarded with stimuli from your phone and social media, having that kind of distraction at school just makes things even worse.

So yeah, I think tech in school is one of those things that sounds great but usually just back-fires in spectacular ways (imho).

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#22

Post by [deleted] »

lakpan wrote: post #15
blackhaz wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We didn't have any tech in school and yet we've turned out just fine, now sitting here and typing this on HN. I'm all for banning tech from schools. Allowing Google to enter the school system has been a crime against our children.

> crime against our children. Sounds a bit hyperbolic. How are kids being hurt by Google specifically?

[deleted]

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#23

Post by lukan »

draugadrotten wrote: post #18
lukan wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I will honestly prefer to just ban all tech from schools." But can one really hope, to prepare students for life then?

Think of tech like chemistry class. We don't let kids carry around chemicals all day to use however they want. Instead, we have them do experiments in a special lab under close watch. Computers should be treated the same way. They shouldn't be something students can use anytime, anywhere without guidance. Just like we handle dangerous chemicals with care, we should also be careful with technology. It's powerful, and…

Chemistry is something that can explode and poison you. And a normal person cannot buy dangerous chemicals (that easily).

Computers are normal in everyday life and allmost every job. Whether it is research, or writing or programming - artificially seperating students from such a integral part of modern life seems not that practical. At least not, if the goal is to raise the general level of computer savviness - which I think is currently way too low. With the result of people not understanding that they are the product in social networks etc.

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#24

Post by a321neo »

Public sector IT in Denmark has been in a weird tug of war between those eager to sell out our data to American companies and those who naively think Ubuntu and LibreOffice can realistically replace the public sector's dependency on Microsoft.

We need to keep our data in Denmark and become less dependent on American companies (and especially Microsoft/Google). But the change needs to be led by IT professionals who care about usability and know better than forcing Linux and LibreOffice down the throat of elderly office workers.

One approach is to identify the business processes they are using Microsoft/Google apps for and then offer the entire process through well-designed web apps hosted in Denmark.

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#25

Post by nkrisc »

lukan wrote: post #10
throwaway71271 wrote: post #7

Schools+laptops is absolutely crazy. The amount of incompetence is beyond reason. My daughter(12)'s keyboard got broken, now she is afraid she wont be able to take her exam with an external keyboard because there is a spyware extension they use called 'safe exam browser' that might block her computer when she plugs the keyboard. Most of the kids are just using it to snapchat during class. I will honestly prefer to ju…

"I will honestly prefer to just ban all tech from schools." But can one really hope, to prepare students for life then?

While perhaps a bit hyperbolic, I agree. Though I will be more nuanced and say that ban all tech from classes that aren’t about the tech. I think computer literacy classes for children are more important than ever, and not every family has the means or knowledge to teach kids these skills.

When I was a teenager in the 2000s you could still go to the mall, walk into an store and fill out a paper application for jobs, though even then they looked at you a bit funny. I’m pretty sure that’s not possible anymore, so it’s effectively required to at least be able to access the internet to find a job and participate in society. You’ll also almost certainly need to know how to use computers, and depending on the work, understand files and file systems.

I’m follow some subreddits that tend to attract younger people who are interested in programming. Whatever you take for granted about basic computer knowledge, I suspect most people don’t have it. One recent example was someone concerned that if they saved more than one file in a folder, it would overwrite anything in there (like a video game save slot). I think for a lot of people their only computer knowledge comes from game consoles and phones.

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#26

Post by lukan »

cebert wrote: post #14
lukan wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I will honestly prefer to just ban all tech from schools." But can one really hope, to prepare students for life then?

It appears schools are having a difficult enough time learning basic skills like reading, writing, comprehension, and basic math. There’s no reason they need the distraction of laptops in the classroom.

I struggled with ordinary school math. It was boring and apparently had no value to me - but once I used math in combination with programming, to draw beautiful art or make computer games, path finding algorithms, simple AI - suddenly it was fun. There is just so much potential of advanced learning with the help of computers.

Not to say that everything needs computers, of course not. But banning them seems a not that helpful overkill.

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#27

Post by fullspectrumdev »

draugadrotten wrote: post #18
lukan wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I will honestly prefer to just ban all tech from schools." But can one really hope, to prepare students for life then?

Think of tech like chemistry class. We don't let kids carry around chemicals all day to use however they want. Instead, we have them do experiments in a special lab under close watch. Computers should be treated the same way. They shouldn't be something students can use anytime, anywhere without guidance. Just like we handle dangerous chemicals with care, we should also be careful with technology. It's powerful, and…

Not long ago (before the GWoT) you could just buy pretty damn good chemistry sets intended for children, that contained some pretty fun stuff.

Then due to fear of drug labs and terrorism, those largely became relics of a better past.

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#29

Post by newsclues »

lukan wrote: post #10
throwaway71271 wrote: post #7

Schools+laptops is absolutely crazy. The amount of incompetence is beyond reason. My daughter(12)'s keyboard got broken, now she is afraid she wont be able to take her exam with an external keyboard because there is a spyware extension they use called 'safe exam browser' that might block her computer when she plugs the keyboard. Most of the kids are just using it to snapchat during class. I will honestly prefer to ju…

"I will honestly prefer to just ban all tech from schools." But can one really hope, to prepare students for life then?

Computer labs!

Re: Final Decision on Chromebook Case in Denmark

#30

Post by blackhaz »

lakpan wrote: post #15
blackhaz wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We didn't have any tech in school and yet we've turned out just fine, now sitting here and typing this on HN. I'm all for banning tech from schools. Allowing Google to enter the school system has been a crime against our children.

> crime against our children. Sounds a bit hyperbolic. How are kids being hurt by Google specifically?

Take a read here: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11528-021-00599-4

Not specifically related to Google, but we are making our kids write less, which literally dumbs them down: https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.... https://www.researchgate.net/publication/264763007_Handwriti... (You can find lots of research on this, there's no controversy here.)

Somewhat less of a profound problem is the extreme amount of pollution: https://pirg.org/edfund/resources/chromebook-churn-report-hi...

My kid has brought his third Chromebook in just a few years from school. We are all going to pay for all this, while the big tech generates billions of profits and the whole planet is marching towards tech feudalism.

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