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Apple to EU: "Go fuck yourself"

pluralistic.net

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Re: Apple to EU: "Go fuck yourself"

#81

Post by Epskampie »

fxtentacle wrote: post #18

That article nicely highlights how much contempt Apple has for its developers. I don't know how they got there, but small companies have certainly come a long way from being treated like partners.

This went out the window the moment that developers weren't rare anymore. Nowadays there is so many people all over the world willing and able to do the work to produce apps, apple is free to exersize their duopoly power and treat them as expandable.

I've created some iOS apps, and you can really feel this in every single interaction. From their crummy badly written out of date documentation without code samples, to the painfully slow developer portals, to the random app rejections.

Re: Apple to EU: "Go fuck yourself"

#82

Post by surgical_fire »

masklinn wrote: post #48
newbie578 wrote: post #39

I have zero doubt in my mind that Apple is in for a rude awakening. No way will the EU stand this level of malicious compliance. The gloves are off and I fully expect for Apple to not come out unscathed.

I doubt it’s going to be an awakening, unless Apple’s execs have taken to huffing paint on a musk scale, I would assume it’s more of a cynical ploy: while the EU doesn’t like companies ignoring the spirit of the laws it usually takes limited action until it’s refined the word to match, so they’re trying out ignoring the spirit in case it either works out or gives them more time, even if the odds are low. That’s a hig…

> That’s a high risk manoeuvre if the EU courts decide to make an example though.

And the EU courts absolutely should.

Re: Apple to EU: "Go fuck yourself"

#83

Post by surgical_fire »

adastra22 wrote: post #17

Apple's European revenue for the App Store is only 7% of its global App Store receipts. At some point apple will just leave the market. The EU is a bit bonkers to think that it can get global tech companies to comply with increasingly tech-hostile regulations without any push back or red lines. At some point it just stops being worth the hassle.

> At some point apple will just leave the market.

I live in Europe. And I truly hope so.

> The EU is a bit bonkers to think that it can get global tech companies to comply with increasingly tech-hostile regulations without any push back or red lines.

So... We in Europe would not be able to access anymore US huge advertisement networks and manufacturers of luxury tech toys?

Please, wake me up when those awful corporations do push back on red lines.

Re: Apple to EU: "Go fuck yourself"

#85

Post by surgical_fire »

adastra22 wrote: post #26
5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At some point apple will just leave the market. maybe a good thing. yanis varoufakis said EU had become irrelevant in tech. more investment can go to local tech instead of US monopolies.

I would love for there to be a vibrant European tech scene. But these same sort of business-hostile behavior is exactly why there isn't a European version of Silicon Valley.

Do we really want the venture capital grift machine on these shores?

I mean, I indirectly benefit from the grift, but I am not one to put some lipstick on this particular pig.

Re: Apple to EU: "Go fuck yourself"

#86

Post by dash2 »

atoav wrote: post #58
dash2 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Food is highly regulated by the state, at least in the US and EU (probably too highly regulated). It is also a market with numerous platforms which compete to offer quality guarantees - i.e. supermarkets. The difference with Apple is just that the platform is more tied in to the hardware.

Sure, but would you like one company to decide which food you are allowed to eat?

I understand the loss of being stuck with a single platform, but that's not quite right. You can have multiple devices, just as you can shop at multiple supermarkets. It's just that the price for doing so is higher (syncing multiple devices, carrying them around, the initial outlay), so most people don't. Nobody forces you to buy either Apple or Android. But the services they provide are indeed valuable: the walled garden protects me from certain kinds of harmful software, for example.

The duopoly in smartphones is an outcome of the underlying technologies. That doesn't mean it is efficient in the economic sense, compared to an ideal world, but the comparison has to be what we can actually implement.

Re: Apple to EU: "Go fuck yourself"

#87

Post by matwood »

danogentili wrote: post #37
adastra22 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want iPhones and iPads and MacBooks to be discontinued from the European market?

Yes, I certainly do: if Apple can't behave, there's no reason their unrepairable, overpriced garbage should stay on the EU market.

> overpriced garbage

You have highlighted my issue with this whole DMA situation. Every Android phone I have used has felt like privacy invading garbage (except maybe the nexus 4), yet I don't think they should be off market. I simply use an iPhone instead.

Instead of the DMA being pro-consumer, I read it as anti-business (probably US business). It feels created out of EU jealously of the US tech industry, and secondarily a way to help EU companies. Consumers will likely end up worse off, which I reminded of every time I visit the EU have to dismiss cookie banners on every damn site.

Re: Apple to EU: "Go fuck yourself"

#88

Post by rglullis »

matwood wrote: post #87
danogentili wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I certainly do: if Apple can't behave, there's no reason their unrepairable, overpriced garbage should stay on the EU market.

> overpriced garbage You have highlighted my issue with this whole DMA situation. Every Android phone I have used has felt like privacy invading garbage (except maybe the nexus 4), yet I don't think they should be off market. I simply use an iPhone instead. Instead of the DMA being pro-consumer, I read it as anti-business (probably US business). It feels created out of EU jealously of the US tech industry, and second…

There are a good number of "Android devices" which I can unlock the bootloader (or comes already unlocked from factory) and install another ROM. Done, no more "privacy invading garbage".

That is virtually impossible to be done with any Apple product.

Re: Apple to EU: "Go fuck yourself"

#89

Post by piltdownman »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #80
piltdownman wrote: post #76

This is the epitome of ill-informed and emotive polemic, written in a tabloid-esque fervour worthy of The National Inquirer. The Author starts with a inherently flawed argument around the concept of duty-free - holding it as some sort of totem indicating a cultural proclivity for the Irish towards large-scale tax evasion. The concept of things like bonded warehouses and Tourist Refund Schemes are ignored, despite him…

I agree that his attacks on Ireland's corporation tax arrangements are hyperbolic and unnecessarily inflamatory. But I think his point about the Irish data commissioner is valid. While EU countries are allowed to compete on tax, competing on lax law enforcement or lax interpretation of the law is unacceptable.

It's not a case of lax enforcement, it's simply a case of David vs Goliath.

Ireland, as a country has a population of 5 million and is 1/8th the Size of Texas. The nearest comparable European capital, London, has a population of 9 million.

GDPR was only introduced in 2018. Since then the Irish DPC has transformed from a small regionally-based office of 27 staff into an independent pan-EU regulatory body of ~250 SMEs and support staff.

In 2022 the Irish DPC was responsible for more than €1bn in GDPR fines issued out of a European total of €1.64bn.

In May 2023 they charged Meta with a €405m fine for violations relating to children’s privacy on Instagram, in November 2023 they followed up with a €1.2bn fine for its Facebook data transfers between the EU and the US, which is the largest GDPR fine issued to date.

Not only has the Irish DPC leveraged the largest fines in GDPR history against US MNCs for egregious Data Protection breaches, each time they do so they're hauled out in front of the US media to justify their decisions:

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/24/irish-data-regulator-defends...

While I'm an avid supporter of Max Schrems and NOYB in particular, and am very vocal about the failings of both Helen Dixon and the Irish government in terms of ramping up our Data Protectorate function to meet the role of Federal Overseer that we accidentally found ourselves in, it's simply a case of cutting our cloth according to our measure.

Re: Apple to EU: "Go fuck yourself"

#90

Post by tuyiown »

southerntofu wrote: post #28
tuyiown wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have much less chances to be scammed/exploited because F-Droid is community-run and is explicit about anti-features in the store UI. That, but also because it's a niche that has not been targeted by malevolence. Enjoy it while it last.

Debian and other distro repositories would like to disagree. When the packager doesn't provide the final build, it becomes much harder for malware/adware to reach end users. Not technically impossible, but much harder than direct-to-users stores such as Apple AppStore or Flathub where it is trivial because whatever binary the uploader provides ends up directly running on user machines.

That works fine until hostiles manages to trick users to install their software directly or, to get back to the topic, their own app store or browser.

I find it quite ironic that the discussion circles back to the level of lock down on "supported" app distribution channels.

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