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What happened with the Web Monetization API?

chriscoyier.net

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Re: What happened with the Web Monetization API?

#141

Post by downWidOutaFite »

gamepsys wrote: post #126
jjcm wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please correct me if I'm wrong here (I've been out of the crypto game for a couple years), but I don't think crypto holds up here. The nature of transaction fees with crypto is they scale exponentially with demand. Monero fees are low because volume is low. Bitcoin fees are high ($9.97 was the average transaction fee yesterday!) because volume is high. Any fully decentralized crypto at the scale of use that the Web M…

The current bitcoin blocksize is limited to 1mb. This means, on average, only 1mb worth of transactions can be written to the ledger. With that 1mb we save thousands of transactions. When you pay a transaction fee you are essentially bidding on your data being written to the ledger every 10 minutes. You are correct that the more people bidding, the higher we can expect the price to be. There is however no technical r…

That was the reason for the fork of Bitcoin Cash, and indeed BCH blocks are bigger and fees are much smaller. But BTC is still inexplicably way more popular.

Re: What happened with the Web Monetization API?

#142

Post by EE84M3i »

CaptainFever wrote: post #80
seanwilson wrote: post #5

> It needs to be built into the browsers and web standards such that it’s incredibly smooth and fast. I wanna send $1 to a website, it happens instantly and anonymously, and the developer can do things around this. Like unlock features! For instance, stop showing ads, offer more complete downloads, unlock tutorial courses, etc. Make it easier and faster than using a credit card. Are there any promising avenues toward…

This is literally the use case for cryptocurrencies -- digital cash, not investments. In the more... questionably legal parts of the web, Monero is pretty common since you can't use regular banking anyway. The fees are pretty low, at around USD0.001 IIRC. There's also Nano (feeless) but it doesn't seem to be very popular, unfortunately.

Is there a way to use crypto for this without adding a bunch of new capital gain/loss items to my taxes?

For foreign currency, there's a personal use exemption, right? Does this apply to crypto?

Re: What happened with the Web Monetization API?

#143

Post by mewpmewp2 »

j0hnyl wrote: post #132
Eddy_Viscosity2 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm grateful this hasn't been worked out yet. The magnitude of the shittification of the internet which will occur once this is a solved problem is almost too much to think about. If you are working on this, for the sake of humanity, please stop.

I actually think it will solve the enshitification problem, which is mostly ad driven.

Or random paywalls. I am fine to pay $0.10 per random article I get linked to and find interesting. I am not fine to pay subscription fees of $5+ for a single article.

Re: What happened with the Web Monetization API?

#144

Post by pr337h4m »

CaptainFever wrote: post #80
seanwilson wrote: post #5

> It needs to be built into the browsers and web standards such that it’s incredibly smooth and fast. I wanna send $1 to a website, it happens instantly and anonymously, and the developer can do things around this. Like unlock features! For instance, stop showing ads, offer more complete downloads, unlock tutorial courses, etc. Make it easier and faster than using a credit card. Are there any promising avenues toward…

This is literally the use case for cryptocurrencies -- digital cash, not investments. In the more... questionably legal parts of the web, Monero is pretty common since you can't use regular banking anyway. The fees are pretty low, at around USD0.001 IIRC. There's also Nano (feeless) but it doesn't seem to be very popular, unfortunately.

If you try to be feeless you become super vulnerable to spam: https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2021/03/11/nanos-network-flood...

IIRC this spam attack cost the attacker only $5000 but rendered the network pretty much useless for hours

Re: What happened with the Web Monetization API?

#145

Post by stickfigure »

gamepsys wrote: post #126
jjcm wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please correct me if I'm wrong here (I've been out of the crypto game for a couple years), but I don't think crypto holds up here. The nature of transaction fees with crypto is they scale exponentially with demand. Monero fees are low because volume is low. Bitcoin fees are high ($9.97 was the average transaction fee yesterday!) because volume is high. Any fully decentralized crypto at the scale of use that the Web M…

The current bitcoin blocksize is limited to 1mb. This means, on average, only 1mb worth of transactions can be written to the ledger. With that 1mb we save thousands of transactions. When you pay a transaction fee you are essentially bidding on your data being written to the ledger every 10 minutes. You are correct that the more people bidding, the higher we can expect the price to be. There is however no technical r…

> Realistically a 100mb block would be large enough to handle all transaction data our species currently generates.

Nonsense.

With the current block size and average transaction size, the bitcoin network processes ~7 transactions per second. A 100X increase in block size gets you to 700 transactions per second. A quick google says global credit card transactions currently average more than 21,000 per second.

You're still almost two orders of magnitude off, and that's just existing credit card transactions.

Re: What happened with the Web Monetization API?

#146

Post by miohtama »

pr337h4m wrote: post #144
CaptainFever wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is literally the use case for cryptocurrencies -- digital cash, not investments. In the more... questionably legal parts of the web, Monero is pretty common since you can't use regular banking anyway. The fees are pretty low, at around USD0.001 IIRC. There's also Nano (feeless) but it doesn't seem to be very popular, unfortunately.

If you try to be feeless you become super vulnerable to spam: https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2021/03/11/nanos-network-flood... IIRC this spam attack cost the attacker only $5000 but rendered the network pretty much useless for hours

Hashcash, Bitcoin’s predecessor, was created to solve email spam:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashcash

Having users to pay actions make spam unprofitable, as spam relies on tragedy of commons and abusing public goods. This is why there is so much less SMS spam compared to email spam.

Re: What happened with the Web Monetization API?

#147

Post by gamepsys »

stickfigure wrote: post #145
gamepsys wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The current bitcoin blocksize is limited to 1mb. This means, on average, only 1mb worth of transactions can be written to the ledger. With that 1mb we save thousands of transactions. When you pay a transaction fee you are essentially bidding on your data being written to the ledger every 10 minutes. You are correct that the more people bidding, the higher we can expect the price to be. There is however no technical r…

> Realistically a 100mb block would be large enough to handle all transaction data our species currently generates. Nonsense. With the current block size and average transaction size, the bitcoin network processes ~7 transactions per second. A 100X increase in block size gets you to 700 transactions per second. A quick google says global credit card transactions currently average more than 21,000 per second. You're s…

Maybe my global transaction number is off. I'm not sure if the blockchain algo would have other bottlenecks when at 10gb blocks which is the size it would need to grow in order to accommodate 70k/sec. Certainly storage and network transfer is sufficient enough. It seems pretty feasible to process 16.67 MBps of data even on inefficient algorithms.

Re: What happened with the Web Monetization API?

#148

Post by Sargos »

EE84M3i wrote: post #142
CaptainFever wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is literally the use case for cryptocurrencies -- digital cash, not investments. In the more... questionably legal parts of the web, Monero is pretty common since you can't use regular banking anyway. The fees are pretty low, at around USD0.001 IIRC. There's also Nano (feeless) but it doesn't seem to be very popular, unfortunately.

Is there a way to use crypto for this without adding a bunch of new capital gain/loss items to my taxes? For foreign currency, there's a personal use exemption, right? Does this apply to crypto?

This would most likely be based on stablecoins (US users would use USDC/USDT etc) so no tax issues there.

Re: What happened with the Web Monetization API?

#149

Post by AniseAbyss »

CaptainFever wrote: post #80
seanwilson wrote: post #5

> It needs to be built into the browsers and web standards such that it’s incredibly smooth and fast. I wanna send $1 to a website, it happens instantly and anonymously, and the developer can do things around this. Like unlock features! For instance, stop showing ads, offer more complete downloads, unlock tutorial courses, etc. Make it easier and faster than using a credit card. Are there any promising avenues toward…

This is literally the use case for cryptocurrencies -- digital cash, not investments. In the more... questionably legal parts of the web, Monero is pretty common since you can't use regular banking anyway. The fees are pretty low, at around USD0.001 IIRC. There's also Nano (feeless) but it doesn't seem to be very popular, unfortunately.

[dead]

Re: What happened with the Web Monetization API?

#150

Post by Spivak »

didntcheck wrote: post #134
efitz wrote: post #65

A paid web could eliminate the ad ecosystem and all its toxicity (surveillance technology, etc.) I don't see any solution that was based on customer goodwill ("that was cool, here's $1") as something that there is much demand for. What we need is a browser-mitigated micropayment ecosystem. Maybe browser vendors could come up with a standard where you can "charge up" your account like a prepaid phone card, and then wh…

> A paid web could eliminate the ad ecosystem and all its toxicity (surveillance technology, etc.) It could, but we've now seen the absolute vitriol levelled at sites who dare to ask for a bit of money in return for content, and the lengths people will go to to avoid paying then make up some excuse to justify it. It's funny how a common excuse for ad blocking used to be "I'd pay for content if there was an option", y…

Because it's so annoying. You read for two seconds and then

LOOK AT THIS PUPPY. HE CRIES WHEN YOU DON'T GIVE US MONEY. YOU DON'T WANT TO MAKE HIM SAD DO YOU?!

[X] BE A GOOD PERSON AND GIVE US MONEY

[_] I ENJOY BEING A DRAIN ON SOCIETY, ANNOY ME AGAIN TOMORROW

And you can't just give them a dollar to get them to shut up. It's always $2.99/mo BEST VALUE (billed centennially $3588.00).

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