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Canada Must End Reliance on Cheap Foreign Labor, Minister Says

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Re: Canada Must End Reliance on Cheap Foreign Labor, Minister Says

#31

The real issue is Canada's demographic decline. Immigrants were brought in to fill that gap and pay for pensions and other goodies that expect a growing base of tax paying productive workers. We're not getting rid of these people, they will become citizens if they choose to. Personally, I doubt that any announcement by the government will be anything but a temporary hold, to be returned to high levels post-Liberal el…

> The problem is the policy driving it is bad. Rather than high-skilled workers, we're letting in low-to-mid-skilled young people.

The US has been running its immigration system this way for many decades. It's a disaster. With low to modest economic growth, lifting tens of millions of poor, low education, low skill, non-english speakers up out of poverty is almost impossible. You need persistently rapid economic expansion to do that. The US is getting a long-term under economic class of non-English speakers with low education levels: forever low income laborers. There are large special interests (business and political) in the US that like this and have kept our immigration system this way on purpose for decades despite the mess it has caused. Canada should avoid replicating this failed approach to immigration. The US also has a lot of sprawl space to live in, Canada for the most part does not (most of Canada isn't reasonably inhabitable obviously), so you just get ever more intense density problems in Canada with bulk immigration.

The other huge problem for Canada's immigration change, is that the low skill workers won't contribute enough in taxes net to make a difference in the fiscal demographic problems of the coming decades. The net tax contribution of a low skill worker is between zero and very low across their lifetime. Whereas with Canada's former policy of focusing on high skill immigration, you get a large tax surplus per person, which pays for expensive social programs.

Re: Canada Must End Reliance on Cheap Foreign Labor, Minister Says

#32

I’m an immigrant. I’ll be the first in line to agree that all the demands (and the specifics of those demands: personal space, hygiene, clothing, noise etc) for assimilation by western societies that I’ve ever heard re: immigrants, are reasonable - assuming such luxuries can be afforded (nobody crams themselves 8 to a room by choice ). But, people aren’t robots whose movements are controlled by an on-off switch. The…

> The government introduced the means for people to arrive and work, and so the people arrived.

and the government of whatever nation you came from severely failed, which is why so many want to leave. Why don't you assign responsibility there?

Re: Canada Must End Reliance on Cheap Foreign Labor, Minister Says

#33
Contrary opinion: well, we like paying less! We get angry on high prices, swan at deals, and then get mad that businesses want to pay less too!

Something has to give - either the buyers get shafted, or the workers. I don't believe that margins will be the first to get a cut - margins go to the wealthiest of the bunch who're running the show :)

Re: Canada Must End Reliance on Cheap Foreign Labor, Minister Says

#34

The real issue is Canada's demographic decline. Immigrants were brought in to fill that gap and pay for pensions and other goodies that expect a growing base of tax paying productive workers. We're not getting rid of these people, they will become citizens if they choose to. Personally, I doubt that any announcement by the government will be anything but a temporary hold, to be returned to high levels post-Liberal el…

Maybe I am misinformed, being in the US I always hear that Canadian points based immigration policy is way better than US and it encourages high skill immigration. Is that not true?

Re: Canada Must End Reliance on Cheap Foreign Labor, Minister Says

#35
post #9

500k -> 1.1M foreign students since end of covid. Truely absurd. I hope this is 5th dimension chess to con Indians on false hope of PR to inject a few years of expensive international tuition to pay for covid response. Doesn't make sense to let them work and possibly send remittances back home (as if cost of living is not high enough) because that's what you get when you start brain draining more than those who can a…

I see you're trying to drive a wedge between India and Canada, dirtyid, or Chinese citizen who lives in Canada who loves China and hates western world. It really doesn't matter what you're doing you know, China is a Great Depression and will stay there for 20 years. Also proving the point that Canada and US should not be importing more Chinese pinkies into the country

Oh no, you got me.

I'm a Chinese Canadian citizen living in Canada who advocates for Canadian geopolitical interests before Chinese ones, which I advocate before US ones. That means useful immigration, including Indians who can pay and contribute to economy, not when it gets remitted back to India like MENA model, or eat away at locals QoL. I'm fine with going back to 600k immigration levels, which is still high and having Canadian schools 40% Indian, because frankly PRC talent staying in PRC is good for PRC. For reference, I also advocate Canada cooperating with India on sikh seperatist (and India cooperating with Canada on assassinating Canadian on Canadian soil) to get relations back on track.

Re: Canada Must End Reliance on Cheap Foreign Labor, Minister Says

#36

The real issue is Canada's demographic decline. Immigrants were brought in to fill that gap and pay for pensions and other goodies that expect a growing base of tax paying productive workers. We're not getting rid of these people, they will become citizens if they choose to. Personally, I doubt that any announcement by the government will be anything but a temporary hold, to be returned to high levels post-Liberal el…

Maybe I am misinformed, being in the US I always hear that Canadian points based immigration policy is way better than US and it encourages high skill immigration. Is that not true?

As someone deeply involved in immigration advocacy in USA I can assure you that the Canadian points based system is terrible. It is the classic case of grass is greener on other side effect.

Re: Canada Must End Reliance on Cheap Foreign Labor, Minister Says

#37

The real issue is Canada's demographic decline. Immigrants were brought in to fill that gap and pay for pensions and other goodies that expect a growing base of tax paying productive workers. We're not getting rid of these people, they will become citizens if they choose to. Personally, I doubt that any announcement by the government will be anything but a temporary hold, to be returned to high levels post-Liberal el…

Maybe I am misinformed, being in the US I always hear that Canadian points based immigration policy is way better than US and it encourages high skill immigration. Is that not true?

It was fine, but more importantly borderline sustainable, until post covid explosion in Indian student visas, more than system can realistically integrate in short time line involved. The point of skill based immigration is you drain the brightest (and richest) who can generally pay their way and be net contributor right away (tuition etc). When I was in Canadian uni around the 00s, around explosion of PRC international students, they mostly come from wealthy backcgrounds, bought a condo, studied and transitioned into skilled work. They generally didn't work part time while in school. Brought money into economy with stupid consumption. Still drove up RE market / rent, but not the to levels now in the last few years. The richest Indians with $$$ goes to the states due to their remarkably successful Indian disaphora network, Canada gets what's left over, which is still bright/hardworking minds, but they're poorer, and many have to work driving down wages in all segments. Which might be fine i nmoderation but with sheer numbers involved, in the time frame involved, is driving up cost to visibly levels in the few cities where immigrants settle.

Re: Canada Must End Reliance on Cheap Foreign Labor, Minister Says

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I am misinformed, being in the US I always hear that Canadian points based immigration policy is way better than US and it encourages high skill immigration. Is that not true?

As someone deeply involved in immigration advocacy in USA I can assure you that the Canadian points based system is terrible. It is the classic case of grass is greener on other side effect.

To elaborate a bit more:

The points based system is eventually administered by a bunch of government servant and the "points" are subject to the internal politics of the government.

Consider the french and english language proficiency. It is established based on some exam. Now in countries like India there is a vast network of institutes which will help you to beat those tests without having actual proficiency in the language. But what if you fail ? Pretty simple. You find a smart spouse who can crack it for you and then pay her a large money to help you move to Canada and then file for divorce after couple of years.

Same goes for things like job offers in Canada. It can very easily be hacked. You pay a Canadian business owner who happens to be the third cousin of your mother a nice sum to give you an offer. Then when you go to Canada you work for someone else.

The market is much better indicator of a person's worth to society than any points based system. In USA you cross the border and make a living for yourself and you are an American. We do not care what Trump, IRS or CBP have to say in this regard. It attracts hustlers and badass people.

Re: Canada Must End Reliance on Cheap Foreign Labor, Minister Says

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I am misinformed, being in the US I always hear that Canadian points based immigration policy is way better than US and it encourages high skill immigration. Is that not true?

It was fine, but more importantly borderline sustainable, until post covid explosion in Indian student visas, more than system can realistically integrate in short time line involved. The point of skill based immigration is you drain the brightest (and richest) who can generally pay their way and be net contributor right away (tuition etc). When I was in Canadian uni around the 00s, around explosion of PRC internatio…

To give context some cities in India hold a massive "send off" ceremonies for Indian students going to Canada and they rent a stadium to do so. The are not just sending by truckloads and boatloads but hudrends of flights full of indian students.
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