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China spied on Dutch Cyber Intelligence through FortiGate backdoors

defensie.nl

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Re: China spied on Dutch Cyber Intelligence through FortiGate backdoors

#11

Post by wolverine876 »

jacquesm wrote: post #4
neilv wrote: post #2

Firefox Translations of it says it was known vulnerability: > The malware found installed a ‘backdoor’ by using a known vulnerability in FortiGate devices. The publication of the MIVD therefore does not describe any new vulnerability in all FortiGate devices. I could believe factory backdoors in Fortinet products, including bugdoors, but it's even easier to believe commonplace unintended software defects. Edit: This…

> it's even easier to believe commonplace unintended software defects Note the fact that this was actively exploited by the Chinese. That sort of reduces the chance of this being an accident, especially since they've done this before.

Why would Chinese intelligence (or any intelligence agency) care if the vulnerability is an accident or intentional? I imagine they prefer the former, because it reveals less about their techniques, methods, etc.

Re: China spied on Dutch Cyber Intelligence through FortiGate backdoors

#12

Post by viscanti »

a321neo wrote: post #10
biotopia wrote: post #8

When is Europe going to wake up and realize that China is attacking Europe with all its weights, whether its through Russia's military invasion or through economic attack of dumping of EV and solar that seeks to destroy Europe's car industry? China Offers Full Support to Russia on Ukraine War https://www.newsweek.com/china-russia-ukraine-war-dong-jun-c...

If China supported Russia the war would have been over by now. There is a reason Russia has to buy weapons from North Korea and Iran when China would have been able to provide much more. China has actually supported Saudi Arabia's war on Yemen's Houthis more than they have supported Russia's war on Ukraine. When Saudi Arabia's F-15s started getting their wings blown off by by Iranian SAMs fired by Houthis it was Chin…

If China didn't support Russia the war would have been over by now.

Re: China spied on Dutch Cyber Intelligence through FortiGate backdoors

#13

Post by [deleted] »

heroiccocoa wrote: post #5
jacquesm wrote: post #3

The full report is here: https://www.ncsc.nl/binaries/ncsc/documenten/publicaties/202...

As someone not super familiar with security research, this work and the associated report must have cost millions of euro in experienced engineering man-hours to write, right? You can't just put a team of interns on this sort of stuff (of course, not defending is not an option, well, an extremely dangerous one)

[deleted]

Re: China spied on Dutch Cyber Intelligence through FortiGate backdoors

#14

Post by seatac76 »

a321neo wrote: post #10
biotopia wrote: post #8

When is Europe going to wake up and realize that China is attacking Europe with all its weights, whether its through Russia's military invasion or through economic attack of dumping of EV and solar that seeks to destroy Europe's car industry? China Offers Full Support to Russia on Ukraine War https://www.newsweek.com/china-russia-ukraine-war-dong-jun-c...

If China supported Russia the war would have been over by now. There is a reason Russia has to buy weapons from North Korea and Iran when China would have been able to provide much more. China has actually supported Saudi Arabia's war on Yemen's Houthis more than they have supported Russia's war on Ukraine. When Saudi Arabia's F-15s started getting their wings blown off by by Iranian SAMs fired by Houthis it was Chin…

China absolutely has supported Russia, now it hasn’t given weapons (as far as we know). But it has provided ample material support in terms of western chips, heavy vehicles and parts. Without which Russia wouldn’t have lasted as long as it has. Not to mention the diplomatic cover.

Re: China spied on Dutch Cyber Intelligence through FortiGate backdoors

#16

Post by biotopia »

a321neo wrote: post #10
biotopia wrote: post #8

When is Europe going to wake up and realize that China is attacking Europe with all its weights, whether its through Russia's military invasion or through economic attack of dumping of EV and solar that seeks to destroy Europe's car industry? China Offers Full Support to Russia on Ukraine War https://www.newsweek.com/china-russia-ukraine-war-dong-jun-c...

If China supported Russia the war would have been over by now. There is a reason Russia has to buy weapons from North Korea and Iran when China would have been able to provide much more. China has actually supported Saudi Arabia's war on Yemen's Houthis more than they have supported Russia's war on Ukraine. When Saudi Arabia's F-15s started getting their wings blown off by by Iranian SAMs fired by Houthis it was Chin…

in the article I linked, it literally said

"China's newly appointed defense chief and Shoigu discussed boosting military cooperation and coordination as the Russia-Ukraine war drags on. Tensions surrounding the Ukraine crisis have tested the resilience of the China-Russia partnership, with Beijing supporting the Kremlin's plans economically rather than openly amid international pressure."

Re: China spied on Dutch Cyber Intelligence through FortiGate backdoors

#17

Post by nsajko »

biotopia wrote: post #8

When is Europe going to wake up and realize that China is attacking Europe with all its weights, whether its through Russia's military invasion or through economic attack of dumping of EV and solar that seeks to destroy Europe's car industry? China Offers Full Support to Russia on Ukraine War https://www.newsweek.com/china-russia-ukraine-war-dong-jun-c...

From the HN Guidelines:

> Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. Omit internet tropes.

> Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. That tramples curiosity.

Re: China spied on Dutch Cyber Intelligence through FortiGate backdoors

#18

Post by szundi »

heroiccocoa wrote: post #5
jacquesm wrote: post #3

The full report is here: https://www.ncsc.nl/binaries/ncsc/documenten/publicaties/202...

As someone not super familiar with security research, this work and the associated report must have cost millions of euro in experienced engineering man-hours to write, right? You can't just put a team of interns on this sort of stuff (of course, not defending is not an option, well, an extremely dangerous one)

If you wrote like 20 similar papers, I think it is not even near that. If you already have the exploit, you can easily and lazily throw this together in a week. I presume.

Re: China spied on Dutch Cyber Intelligence through FortiGate backdoors

#19

Post by thomasahle »

neilv wrote: post #2

Firefox Translations of it says it was known vulnerability: > The malware found installed a ‘backdoor’ by using a known vulnerability in FortiGate devices. The publication of the MIVD therefore does not describe any new vulnerability in all FortiGate devices. I could believe factory backdoors in Fortinet products, including bugdoors, but it's even easier to believe commonplace unintended software defects. Edit: This…

> including bugdoors

Is a bugdoor a factory backdoor implemented via an intentional bug?

Is the idea to give plausible deniability if the backdoor gets found?

Re: China spied on Dutch Cyber Intelligence through FortiGate backdoors

#20

Post by malermeister »

viscanti wrote: post #12
a321neo wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If China supported Russia the war would have been over by now. There is a reason Russia has to buy weapons from North Korea and Iran when China would have been able to provide much more. China has actually supported Saudi Arabia's war on Yemen's Houthis more than they have supported Russia's war on Ukraine. When Saudi Arabia's F-15s started getting their wings blown off by by Iranian SAMs fired by Houthis it was Chin…

If China didn't support Russia the war would have been over by now.

They support them just enough so the war can drag on, weakening both Russia and the West.
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