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What happened with the Web Monetization API?

chriscoyier.net

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Re: What happened with the Web Monetization API?

#81

Post by luhn »

imiric wrote: post #73
efitz wrote: post #65

A paid web could eliminate the ad ecosystem and all its toxicity (surveillance technology, etc.) I don't see any solution that was based on customer goodwill ("that was cool, here's $1") as something that there is much demand for. What we need is a browser-mitigated micropayment ecosystem. Maybe browser vendors could come up with a standard where you can "charge up" your account like a prepaid phone card, and then wh…

> Maybe browser vendors could come up with a standard where you can "charge up" your account like a prepaid phone card This will, sadly, never happen. When an adtech giant controls not only the world's most popular web browser, but also has major power in directing the future of the web itself, there's no scenario where they would voluntarily align against their own business interests. Brave actually has a browser th…

Presumably the browser would take a fee for facilitating the transaction, which could replace any lost ad revenue.

And imo most websites would double dip: Have paid content and advertising. You already see that for online newspaper/magazine subscriptions. If Google is on both sides of that, that's extra revenue for them.

I agree that it'll never happen, but moreso because a lack imagination and willpower from Google.

Re: What happened with the Web Monetization API?

#83

Post by NetOpWibby »

redder23 wrote: post #59

> I’m some big stan for Big Banks, but crypto was (is) just so absolutely riddled with scams and crime that I just can’t anymore. Decoupling the Web Payments API and crypto is certainly the right move right now. Completely disagree with this. Fiat money is riddled with scams and crime more then cryto ever was and can be at this point. Because the world operates on fiat and. Arguing that giving central banks the Monop…

Your argument _almost_ sounded cohesive, and I'm a proponent of crypto.

Handshake has an improvement proposal called HIP-0002[1] that utilizes the .well-known directory on your domain's server to enable direct payments. You payment address looks like this: /.well-known/wallets/SYMBOL" rel="nofollow">https:///.well-known/wallets/SYMBOL.

You could even utilize IBAN to send to fiat like so: https://example/.well-known/wallets/USD.

Of course, you'd need do a bit of legwork to implement non-crypto support.

[1]: https://github.com/handshake-org/HIPs/blob/master/HIP-0002.m...

Re: What happened with the Web Monetization API?

#84

Post by config_yml »

seanwilson wrote: post #5

> It needs to be built into the browsers and web standards such that it’s incredibly smooth and fast. I wanna send $1 to a website, it happens instantly and anonymously, and the developer can do things around this. Like unlock features! For instance, stop showing ads, offer more complete downloads, unlock tutorial courses, etc. Make it easier and faster than using a credit card. Are there any promising avenues toward…

This already works with Crypto, something like Hedera is dirt cheap (1/100 of a cent) and fast and scales really well. Wallets are easy to connect, but the disconnect to regular $$$ is still a bit too big for the regular surfin' user.

Re: What happened with the Web Monetization API?

#85

Post by nerdo »

kerkeslager wrote: post #78
nerdo wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US the receiver gets unbanked without warning or explanation and permanently loses the ability to accept money through any service via systems like MATCH.

Right... so far this has happened to 3 sites in the top 10 of this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-visited_websites 2 of the sites in the top 10 of that list have been criticized for hosting hate speech. The 3 sites which have had trouble receiving payments don't overlap with the 2 which have been criticized for hosting hate speech. And notably, many sites which are more hateful than those and have e…

Porn can be an understandable concern because of the amount of chargebacks it can create for processors, though the excessive chargebacks should be the rule not the porn. Hate speech they never tried to explain afaik. FWIW repealing fair banking[1] was immediate priority for Biden up there with fortifying elections[2].

1: https://reason.com/2021/02/11/biden-administration-suspends-...

2: https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/1

Re: What happened with the Web Monetization API?

#86

Post by bee_rider »

imiric wrote: post #73
efitz wrote: post #65

A paid web could eliminate the ad ecosystem and all its toxicity (surveillance technology, etc.) I don't see any solution that was based on customer goodwill ("that was cool, here's $1") as something that there is much demand for. What we need is a browser-mitigated micropayment ecosystem. Maybe browser vendors could come up with a standard where you can "charge up" your account like a prepaid phone card, and then wh…

> Maybe browser vendors could come up with a standard where you can "charge up" your account like a prepaid phone card This will, sadly, never happen. When an adtech giant controls not only the world's most popular web browser, but also has major power in directing the future of the web itself, there's no scenario where they would voluntarily align against their own business interests. Brave actually has a browser th…

It isn’t that surprising that Google isn’t bringing us to the post-ad web, but I’m surprised Apple isn’t. The idea of an app or something asking the OS for a payment, and then the user trusting the OS to handle the details behind the scenes is already conventional on iOS, right?

They already have a nice way of doing subscriptions to podcasts too. So it isn’t like Apple is totally allergic to giving content providers with a way to offer their users premium services. It just hasn’t happened for websites for some reason.

Re: What happened with the Web Monetization API?

#87

Post by Analemma_ »

svieira wrote: post #29
carlosjobim wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The browser has a built in ad blocker, effectively removing the ads that pay for a website. To then put your own ads _anywhere_ after that and pretend that you're helping website owners is a scam. Imagine if YouTube started blocking sponsored content and put their own ads there.

Brave removes unsolicited advertisements and trackers. That is a feature of the browser and is effectively the same as shipping older versions of Chrome with a bundled version of µblockOrigin. Separately (probably not in "planning how to make Brave a profitable company", but definitely so in feature scope) IFF the user opts-in to seeing Brave's ads then they get paid (in a crypto-token that represents a unit of "Atte…

The problem is that each of these steps seems fine in isolation but the net result is that websites get (and feel) ripped off. If I sat directly outside the printing press of a newspaper, intercepted each printed copy, ripped out all the ads and put in my own instead and took a cut of the resulting revenue, everyone would understand that's a problem.

I've seen Brave apologists say for years going "no, really, it's not ripping you off!" to people who feel ripped off, to basically zero effect at changing hearts and minds. At some point you have to accept the reality that people aren't going to be won over by "logical" explanations of why someone who seems like they're obviously ripping them off actually isn't.

Re: What happened with the Web Monetization API?

#88

Post by bee_rider »

pelorat wrote: post #46
seanwilson wrote: post #5

> It needs to be built into the browsers and web standards such that it’s incredibly smooth and fast. I wanna send $1 to a website, it happens instantly and anonymously, and the developer can do things around this. Like unlock features! For instance, stop showing ads, offer more complete downloads, unlock tutorial courses, etc. Make it easier and faster than using a credit card. Are there any promising avenues toward…

Good luck getting something like that past Eu regulators.

Why? It seems like the sort of privacy-supporting thing they’d like.

Re: What happened with the Web Monetization API?

#89

Post by foobiekr »

efitz wrote: post #65

A paid web could eliminate the ad ecosystem and all its toxicity (surveillance technology, etc.) I don't see any solution that was based on customer goodwill ("that was cool, here's $1") as something that there is much demand for. What we need is a browser-mitigated micropayment ecosystem. Maybe browser vendors could come up with a standard where you can "charge up" your account like a prepaid phone card, and then wh…

The problem with micropayments has ALWAYS been malicious actors. It will ALWAYS be malicious actors. This is not a technical problem but a problem with the whole concept that is structurally inseparable.

Re: What happened with the Web Monetization API?

#90

Post by ace2358 »

foobiekr wrote: post #89
efitz wrote: post #65

A paid web could eliminate the ad ecosystem and all its toxicity (surveillance technology, etc.) I don't see any solution that was based on customer goodwill ("that was cool, here's $1") as something that there is much demand for. What we need is a browser-mitigated micropayment ecosystem. Maybe browser vendors could come up with a standard where you can "charge up" your account like a prepaid phone card, and then wh…

The problem with micropayments has ALWAYS been malicious actors. It will ALWAYS be malicious actors. This is not a technical problem but a problem with the whole concept that is structurally inseparable.

The problem with Ads on the web has ALWAYS been malicious actors. It will ALWAYS be malicious actors. This is not a technical problem but a problem with the whole concept that is structurally inseparable.

Hmmm

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