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We might want to regularly keep track of how important each server is

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Re: We might want to regularly keep track of how important each server is

#81
Good plan! I think this is a relatively common practice within some corners of the telecom world.

At university (Western WA in B'ham), I worked for our campus resnet, which had extensive involvement with other networking groups on campus. They ran layers 3 and below on the resnets, we took DNS+DHCP, plus egress, and everything through to layers 8 and 9.

The core network gear was co-located in a few musty basements along with the telephone switches. DC and backup power was available, but severely limited under certain failure scenarios.

All of the racked networking gear in the primary space was labeled with red and green dots. Green was first to go in any load-shedding scenario. Think: redundant LAN switches, switches carrying local ports, network monitoring servers, other +1 redundant components, etc.

I'm not sure if the scheme was ever required in real life, but do know it was based on hard-earned experiences like the author here.

Re: We might want to regularly keep track of how important each server is

#82

Good plan! I think this is a relatively common practice within some corners of the telecom world. At university (Western WA in B'ham), I worked for our campus resnet, which had extensive involvement with other networking groups on campus. They ran layers 3 and below on the resnets, we took DNS+DHCP, plus egress, and everything through to layers 8 and 9. The core network gear was co-located in a few musty basements al…

Used to run data centers for ISPs and such around NoVA.

This was built into the building plan by room, with most rooms going down first and Meet-Me-Rooms + the rooms immediately adjacent where the big iron routers were, being the last to fail. It's been a while but IIRC there weren't any specific by-rack or by system protocols.

Re: We might want to regularly keep track of how important each server is

#83
Similar thing (catastrophic aircon failure due to a flood in a crap colocated DC) happened to us too before we shifted to AWS. Photos from the colo were pretty bizarre - fans balanced on random boxes, makeshift aircon ducting made of cardboard and tape, and some dude flailing an open fire door back and forth all day to get a little bit of fresh air in. Bizarre to see in 2010-ish with multi million dollar customers.

We ended up having to strategically shut servers down as well, but the question of what's critical, where is it in the racks, and what's next to it was incredibly difficult to answer. And kinda mind-bending - we'd been thinking of these things as completely virtualised resources for years, suddenly having to consider their physical characteristics as well was a bit of a shock. Just shutting down everything non-critical wasn't enough - there were still now critical non-redundant servers next to each other overheating.

All we had to go on was an outdated racktables install, a readout of the case temperature for each, and a map of which machine was connected to which switch port which loosely related to position in the rack - none completely accurate. In the end we got the colo guys to send a photo of the rack front and back and (though not everything was well labelled) we were able to make some decisions and get things stable again.

In the end one server that was critical but we couldn't get to run cooler we got lucky with - we were able to pull out the server below and (without shutting it down) have the on site engineer drop it down enough to crack the lid open and get some cool air into it to keep it running (albeit with no redundancy and on the edge of thermal shutdown).

We came really close to a major outage that day that would have cost us dearly. I know it sounds like total shambles (and it kinda was) but I miss those days.

Re: We might want to regularly keep track of how important each server is

#84

Tracking servers is one thing, but tracking the dependency relationships among them is likely at least as important.

Writing down and graphing out these relationships is a good way to identify and normalize them.

I once had a system with layers of functionality; lvl 0 services were the most critical; lvl 3+ was "user shit" that could be sloughed off at need.

Had some stub servers at lvl 0 and 1 that did things like providing a file share of the same name as the lower level services, but not populated; so that inadvertent domain crossing dependencies weren't severe problems.

There was a "DB server" stub that only returned "no results." The actual DB server for those queries was on the monster big rack SPARC with the 3dz disks that took 10min to spin up fully. When it came up it took over.

Re: We might want to regularly keep track of how important each server is

#85
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> provide your apps criticality ratings based on how important they are to running the business In a decentralized, self-service model, you can add "deal with convincing a stakeholder their app is anything less than most-critical." Although it usually works itself out if higher-criticality imposes ongoing time commitments on them as well (aka stick).

That seems like a poorly run company. Idk. Maybe we’ve worked in very different environments, but devs have almost always been aware of the criticality of the app, so convincing people wasn’t hard. In most places, the answer hinges on “is it customer facing?” and/or “does it break a core part of our business?” If the answer is no to both, it’s not critical, and everyone understands that. There’s always some weird out…

>devs have almost always been aware of the criticality of the app

I'm sure that developers are aware of the how important their stuff is to their immediate customer, but they're almost never aware of the relative criticality vis-a-vis stuff they don't own or have any idea about.

Re: We might want to regularly keep track of how important each server is

#87

It is interesting to contrast with where the wider industry has gone. Industry: don’t treat your systems like pets. Author: proudly declares himself Unix herder, wants to keep track of which systems are important.

Not sure if the goal was just to make an amusing comparison, but these are actually two completely different concerns.

Building your systems so that they don't depend on permanent infrastructure and snowflake configurations is an orthogonal concern from understanding how to shed load in a business-continuity crisis.

Re: We might want to regularly keep track of how important each server is

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At a FAANG, our services are cattle, but we still plan which services to keep running when we need to drain 50% of a DC. Latency is important. Money makers > Latency sensitive > Optional requests > Background requests > Batch traffic. Bootstrapping is important. If A depends on B, you might to drain A first, or A and B together.

The cattle metaphors really is a bad one. Anyone raising cattle should do the same thing, knowing which animals are the priority in case of draught, disease, etc. Hopefully one never has to face that scenario, but its much easier to pick up the pieces when you know where the priorities are whether you're having to power down servers or thin a herd.

Yeah, really the only difference is whether you are tracking individual servers or TYPES of servers

Re: We might want to regularly keep track of how important each server is

#89

It is interesting to contrast with where the wider industry has gone. Industry: don’t treat your systems like pets. Author: proudly declares himself Unix herder, wants to keep track of which systems are important.

I’m absolutely loving the term Unix herder and will probably adopt it :) I’m generally with you and the wider industry on the cattle-not-pets thing but there are a few things to keep in mind in the context of a university IT department that are different than what we regularly talk about here: - budgets often work differently. You have a capex budget and your institution will exist long enough to fully depreciate the…

> budgets often work differently.

Very differently. Instead of a system you continually iterate on for its entire lifetime, if you're in a more regulated research area you might build it once, get it approved, and then it's only critical updates for the next five (or more!) years while data is collected.

Not many of the IT principles developed for web app startups apply in the research domain. They're less like cattle or pets and more like satellites which have very limited ability to be changed after launch.

Re: We might want to regularly keep track of how important each server is

#90
post #83

Similar thing (catastrophic aircon failure due to a flood in a crap colocated DC) happened to us too before we shifted to AWS. Photos from the colo were pretty bizarre - fans balanced on random boxes, makeshift aircon ducting made of cardboard and tape, and some dude flailing an open fire door back and forth all day to get a little bit of fresh air in. Bizarre to see in 2010-ish with multi million dollar customers. W…

I find it’s much less stressful to rescue situations where it wasn’t your fault to begin with. Absent the ability to point fingers at a vendor, crises like that are a miserable experience for me.
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