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I worked 80 hour weeks to deliver a platform for a hedge fund,then they fired me

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Re: I worked 80 hour weeks to deliver a platform for a hedge fund,then they fired me

#161

Post by WalterBright »

robocat wrote: post #159
WalterBright wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are naively missing company profit as the reward for company risk I wrote: compensation = (value produced) - (cost to employ the person) - (opportunity cost) - (risk) Note the word "risk" in there. > Apple makes a revenue of 2.4 million per employee. Revenue is not profit. And did you factor in the value of stock options as compensation? Total employee compensation is a lot more than salary. > When someone The…

> Note the word "risk" in there. 0: I took risk to mean the risk of employing someone - your definition is totally unclear (I admit I'm an engineer not an economist). Please point me to a good reference that defines your equation. 1: Risk is not profit. 2: Profit is only related to risk in some perfect (edit) economist model of markets. Or if you use a tautological definition between the risk and the profit. In the p…

0. risk is the risk all businesses take when they invest. It's why low-risk bonds pay low interest, and high risk stocks (potentially) give high returns. No savvy business is going to invest in a high risk endeavor with poor expected returns. You don't need a book to tell you that.

1+2. the higher the risk a business takes, the more profit it needs to justify the risk

3. Note how I said if the business underpaid the employee, the employee can leave and get a better offer elsewhere. That's how markets work. That's what drives compensation up to fit the equation. Or the employees can quit and start a competitor. Unusually profitable businesses draw competitors like flies to honey. Every businessman is looking for a high margin business to get in to.

Let's put it another way. If you started a business that made $100 per widget, and the employee that made the widget cost you $10, that would be a great business. Until your competitors caught wind of it and enticed away your employee for $20. You entice him back for $30. Until it reaches equilibrium that matches the equation.

Re: I worked 80 hour weeks to deliver a platform for a hedge fund,then they fired me

#162

Post by robocat »

WalterBright wrote: post #161
robocat wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Note the word "risk" in there. 0: I took risk to mean the risk of employing someone - your definition is totally unclear (I admit I'm an engineer not an economist). Please point me to a good reference that defines your equation. 1: Risk is not profit. 2: Profit is only related to risk in some perfect (edit) economist model of markets. Or if you use a tautological definition between the risk and the profit. In the p…

0. risk is the risk all businesses take when they invest. It's why low-risk bonds pay low interest, and high risk stocks (potentially) give high returns. No savvy business is going to invest in a high risk endeavor with poor expected returns. You don't need a book to tell you that. 1+2. the higher the risk a business takes, the more profit it needs to justify the risk 3. Note how I said if the business underpaid the…

Your argument is based on a perfectly spherical economy. Edit: is that the Austrian or Chicago economics?

In the real world, there are asymmetries, and that shows because in the real world we have businesses making profits in excess of their risks.

If I have a business that makes $100 per widget but it depends on a secret that only I know, how does the competitor learn my secret? Where does that secret knowledge fit into your equation?

And clearly your argument is flawed since most employees are not paid anywhere near the value they produce. Your examples are based on an idealistic perfect market - which we clearly don't have a perfect equilibrium.

Also I added marked (edits) to previous comment before I realised you had already answered

Re: I worked 80 hour weeks to deliver a platform for a hedge fund,then they fired me

#163

Post by gspetr »

ericbarrett wrote: post #77
dfadsadsf wrote: post #24

I just do not believe this story. Nobody in the right mind will fire key software engineer 48 hours after system goes live. This is where all the bugs/problems show up and you need all hands on deck to fix them. Six months after launch when all problems are solved - absolutely, you can fire engineer. 48 hours after launch? absolutely not.

I worked for a storage startup in the South Bay in the late 00s which did something like this. After staff crunched to deliver the base operating system and kernel controllers, management gave across-the-board poor reviews to all IC staff to justify no raise. Those with the ability quickly left for greener pastures; Google hired some of the best. Only those who had to (work visas, lack of experience, etc.) remained.…

This makes me even more incredulous than the GP commenter.

How did people who "read /etc/password from disk on every file access." get hired by Google?

Or perhaps the right question is for which roles, because with that level of DS&A they shouldn't have passed Google's DS&A whiteboard interview.

Re: I worked 80 hour weeks to deliver a platform for a hedge fund,then they fired me

#164

Post by ericbarrett »

foobiekr wrote: post #148
ericbarrett wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for a storage startup in the South Bay in the late 00s which did something like this. After staff crunched to deliver the base operating system and kernel controllers, management gave across-the-board poor reviews to all IC staff to justify no raise. Those with the ability quickly left for greener pastures; Google hired some of the best. Only those who had to (work visas, lack of experience, etc.) remained.…

Smells like Igneous or TinTri. Story shows too much competence for Springpath or Whiptail. Storage is particularly rife with stuff like this for some reason.

Was a long time ago, way before them. I agree though, glad to have changed fields.

Re: I worked 80 hour weeks to deliver a platform for a hedge fund,then they fired me

#165

Post by ericbarrett »

gspetr wrote: post #163
ericbarrett wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for a storage startup in the South Bay in the late 00s which did something like this. After staff crunched to deliver the base operating system and kernel controllers, management gave across-the-board poor reviews to all IC staff to justify no raise. Those with the ability quickly left for greener pastures; Google hired some of the best. Only those who had to (work visas, lack of experience, etc.) remained.…

This makes me even more incredulous than the GP commenter. How did people who "read /etc/password from disk on every file access." get hired by Google? Or perhaps the right question is for which roles, because with that level of DS&A they shouldn't have passed Google's DS&A whiteboard interview.

I think you give the whiteboard far too much credit. In the succeeding two decades I have worked at many companies filled with past, present, and future FAANG engineers, and I can definitely say knowledge of algorithms isn’t a defense against writing silly bugs when implementing a complex, novel project from scratch. Just a dumb oversight that would have been caught quickly by user reports—had all the engineers who cared not quit from misanthropic management. There were many such issues, and I only remember these two because I found them myself.

I was in support and only had two good resources for tracking this kind of stuff down, a burnt out but kind SCSI specialist and a brilliant, massively overworked Russian kernel dev on visa. They both lasted an extra year. Bless them both for answering my pestering questions, I learned a lot.

Good times, but all this was about a year too late to make a difference, then the Great Recession hit and it was done.

Re: I worked 80 hour weeks to deliver a platform for a hedge fund,then they fired me

#166

Post by _benedict »

mattlondon wrote: post #137
dfadsadsf wrote: post #24

I just do not believe this story. Nobody in the right mind will fire key software engineer 48 hours after system goes live. This is where all the bugs/problems show up and you need all hands on deck to fix them. Six months after launch when all problems are solved - absolutely, you can fire engineer. 48 hours after launch? absolutely not.

Yeah something doesn't add up. It sounds like they are in the UK. You can't just fire someone out of the blue like that in the UK (assuming they are a FTE), unless they have done something obviously "bad" (proper misconduct etc). If they don't need you anymore there is a defined redundancy process. If they were not a FTE and were in fact on a temporary contract, then this is totally normal and expected, and the autho…

That’s not true. There’s basically no employment protections in the UK for your first two years of employment. There are pretty good norms in the UK including finance about this, but your statutory protections are pretty weak even after the two years are up.

Re: I worked 80 hour weeks to deliver a platform for a hedge fund,then they fired me

#167

Post by BLanen »

dfadsadsf wrote: post #24

I just do not believe this story. Nobody in the right mind will fire key software engineer 48 hours after system goes live. This is where all the bugs/problems show up and you need all hands on deck to fix them. Six months after launch when all problems are solved - absolutely, you can fire engineer. 48 hours after launch? absolutely not.

> Nobody in the right mind will fire key software engineer 48 hours after system goes live.

Ah yes, the absolute preposterous idea that nobody, especially not companies, would ever make an irrational choice.

Re: I worked 80 hour weeks to deliver a platform for a hedge fund,then they fired me

#168

Post by nunez »

This absolutely blows, but this:

> Firstly, I was told repeatedly that the faster the firm was able to start trading, the faster I would start earning bonuses from the firm's PnL, assuming that the strategies indeed were profitable. (It is my understanding that they are highly profitable.)

Is why I never plan my finances around bonuses. Way too easy to get screwed this way.

Re: I worked 80 hour weeks to deliver a platform for a hedge fund,then they fired me

#169

Post by sunburntboy »

dfadsadsf wrote: post #24

I just do not believe this story. Nobody in the right mind will fire key software engineer 48 hours after system goes live. This is where all the bugs/problems show up and you need all hands on deck to fix them. Six months after launch when all problems are solved - absolutely, you can fire engineer. 48 hours after launch? absolutely not.

Could happen if they could find someone cheaper to do the job with the same skill set

Re: I worked 80 hour weeks to deliver a platform for a hedge fund,then they fired me

#170

Post by davedx »

dfadsadsf wrote: post #24

I just do not believe this story. Nobody in the right mind will fire key software engineer 48 hours after system goes live. This is where all the bugs/problems show up and you need all hands on deck to fix them. Six months after launch when all problems are solved - absolutely, you can fire engineer. 48 hours after launch? absolutely not.

FWIW I tracked down the company, it's ExodusPoint Capital Management. I think the story is true given by what I found with some basic googling.
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