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Vesuvius Challenge 2023 Grand Prize awarded: we can read the first scroll

scrollprize.org

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Re: Vesuvius Challenge 2023 Grand Prize awarded: we can read the first scroll

#11

Post by dmurray »

bglazer wrote: post #8

One aspect of archaeology that I really find fascinating is the practice of leaving certain artifacts unexplored. The original discoverers of the scrolls tried to unroll a few, apparently found it was impossible without completely destroying the scroll, and then just left the rest undisturbed. Rather than pushing forward and destroying everything, they left these as a mystery for a future age. Two centuries (!!) late…

An example of the same thing at a macro level:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/archaeologists-reb...

Re: Vesuvius Challenge 2023 Grand Prize awarded: we can read the first scroll

#12

Post by jdminhbg »

Here is the link to their "master plan" to read all of the excavated scrolls: https://scrollprize.org/master_plan

It looks like there are two main bottlenecks to reading more: the need for manual intervention in segmenting the scanned scrolls, and the cost in scanning new scrolls.

Re: Vesuvius Challenge 2023 Grand Prize awarded: we can read the first scroll

#13

Post by unsupp0rted »

bglazer wrote: post #8

One aspect of archaeology that I really find fascinating is the practice of leaving certain artifacts unexplored. The original discoverers of the scrolls tried to unroll a few, apparently found it was impossible without completely destroying the scroll, and then just left the rest undisturbed. Rather than pushing forward and destroying everything, they left these as a mystery for a future age. Two centuries (!!) late…

> Rather than pushing forward and destroying everything

In the early days they wouldn't have accomplished anything by pushing forward, so it doesn't take all that much restraint.

I'm more impressed by people in, say, the 1990s or early 2000s. They might've had a shot but there was still too much risk, so they restrained themselves until it was a safer bet.

Re: Vesuvius Challenge 2023 Grand Prize awarded: we can read the first scroll

#14

Post by wl »

sekai wrote: post #2

> We estimate that the scrolls we have in Naples contain more than 16 megabytes of text. Some members of our papyrology team say that revealing this text will be the greatest revolution in the classics since the Renaissance Amazing achievement, let's hope the Italian government allows for additional excavation of the villa.

The big problem is that the Villa of the Papyri is underneath modern buildings. That doesn't mean that excavation without demolition is impossible (see the Scavi underneath the Basilica of Saint Peter), but it makes things far more difficult.

Re: Vesuvius Challenge 2023 Grand Prize awarded: we can read the first scroll

#16

Post by pimlottc »

seydor wrote: post #10
riffraff wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they likely would, Pompeii and Herculaneum are _still_ being excavated after two centuries, it's not like things are still. But we have only read 5% of this scroll and there are a ton more already excavated, it will probably take years before we manage to process what we already have.

> it will probably take years In the direction things are going ... maybe a few months :)

There’s more to processing than scanning, it has has to be reviewed, transcribed and translated by linguistics experts, and then analyzed and studied by academics and researchers who can put in context and integrate it with what we currently know about history, cultural, philosophy, etc of the time.

Re: Vesuvius Challenge 2023 Grand Prize awarded: we can read the first scroll

#17

Post by _a_a_a_ »

dmurray wrote: post #11
bglazer wrote: post #8

One aspect of archaeology that I really find fascinating is the practice of leaving certain artifacts unexplored. The original discoverers of the scrolls tried to unroll a few, apparently found it was impossible without completely destroying the scroll, and then just left the rest undisturbed. Rather than pushing forward and destroying everything, they left these as a mystery for a future age. Two centuries (!!) late…

An example of the same thing at a macro level: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/archaeologists-reb...

Bigger yet by far https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mausoleum_of_the_First_Qin_Emp...

He of the terracotta army. Not excavated yet for fear of damage, but I would so love to know...

Re: Vesuvius Challenge 2023 Grand Prize awarded: we can read the first scroll

#18

Post by codeulike »

Over 2000 years ago a chap called Philodemus sits in the library of a luxurious villa owned by a rich guy who likes collecting art and writing. He writes his thoughts on pleasure, and the relationship between the quantity of something and the pleasure that might derive from it. The scroll goes on the shelves with the others. He writes lots. At some point later the villa is covered by lava from mt vesuvius.

2000 years later we scan the carbonised scrolls with (basically) magic rays and use thinking machines to reconstruct what Philodemus wrote.

I wish we could tell him. Sounds like he was a thinker, he would really appreciate it.

Re: Vesuvius Challenge 2023 Grand Prize awarded: we can read the first scroll

#19

Post by sangnoir »

countrymile wrote: post #7

Quite incredible work, with the original breakthrough model being trained on a 1070: https://twitter.com/LukeFarritor/status/1754532281690243339

Large Language Models have skewed the perception on the amount of compute required to do useful things with ML.

Re: Vesuvius Challenge 2023 Grand Prize awarded: we can read the first scroll

#20

Post by kilroy123 »

jdminhbg wrote: post #12

Here is the link to their "master plan" to read all of the excavated scrolls: https://scrollprize.org/master_plan It looks like there are two main bottlenecks to reading more: the need for manual intervention in segmenting the scanned scrolls, and the cost in scanning new scrolls.

What a refreshingly clear and thought-out plan. This project honestly gives me a lot of hope.
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