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Report on the role of standardized test scores in undergraduate admissions [pdf]

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Re: Report on the role of standardized test scores in undergraduate admissions [pdf]

#11

Post by abeppu »

resters wrote: post #3

this says more (good stuff) about Dartmouth than it does about the standardized tests. If scoring higher on something that is close to an IQ test doesn't predict higher academic performance, what does that say about the coursework?

... is it close to an IQ test? Like, people study very specifically for these standardized tests, and success is also related to how much prep work you put in. I think that may also align with how people study for exams once they're enrolled students, how much work they put into projects/papers/etc.

Re: Report on the role of standardized test scores in undergraduate admissions [pdf]

#12

Post by 535188B17C93743 »

SnooSux wrote: post #5

To measure academic achievement they use First Year GPA. It makes sense they're correlated, both require studying known material for a test. But is GPA the best measure, especially first year? I would be interested in other metrics like 3rd-4th year GPA or placements into jobs and such.

I agree. Every other comment here seems to be like "well duh" and I'm... skeptical. My experience is that the ACT/SAT seem to be good indicators of getting good grades in well-defined spaces. But things like creativity, curiosity, work ethic are much better predictors of other kinds of success that frankly matter much more in the real world.

I know some really, really unintelligent people who got good grades in college. They just ate books.

Re: Report on the role of standardized test scores in undergraduate admissions [pdf]

#14

Post by paxys »

old_bayes wrote: post #10
SnooSux wrote: post #5

To measure academic achievement they use First Year GPA. It makes sense they're correlated, both require studying known material for a test. But is GPA the best measure, especially first year? I would be interested in other metrics like 3rd-4th year GPA or placements into jobs and such.

I believe they do look at other things (EDIT: or at least the study this paper was based on did): "Using detailed admissions data from IvyPlus institutions, Chetty, Deming, and Friedman (2023) show that SAT and ACT scores also predict career success, including high levels of earnings and attendance at elite graduate schools, holding family income constant."

That is referring to another study. This particular one doesn't add anything in that regard, just looks at freshman year GPAs.

Re: Report on the role of standardized test scores in undergraduate admissions [pdf]

#15

Post by jgwil2 »

The headline should really be, "A test-optional policy is likely a barrier to Dartmouth identifying less-advantaged students who would succeed at Dartmouth." I think it's no surprise to anyone that test scores correlate with academic success, but it might seem counterintuitive that test-optional policies actually bias admission in favor of higher-income students.

Re: Report on the role of standardized test scores in undergraduate admissions [pdf]

#16

Post by HPsquared »

lxe wrote: post #7

They should "un-bin" the statistics and identify individual outliers -- those who scored poorly on the tests but hold higher GPA, and vice versa, and learn things from these individual students.

That's the "work ethic" part.

Re: Report on the role of standardized test scores in undergraduate admissions [pdf]

#17

Post by spamizbad »

SnooSux wrote: post #5

To measure academic achievement they use First Year GPA. It makes sense they're correlated, both require studying known material for a test. But is GPA the best measure, especially first year? I would be interested in other metrics like 3rd-4th year GPA or placements into jobs and such.

I believe there's some research that suggests your college GPA is not correlated strongly with job performance[1]. I suspect if SAT/ACT scores are strongly correlated with GPA, there's reason to suggest it may also not be strongly correlated with job performance (but I can't find anywhere that tests that).

I suppose this shouldn't be surprising. School does not train you to be a good office worker.

[1] https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/does-college-gpa-predict-job-...

Re: Report on the role of standardized test scores in undergraduate admissions [pdf]

#18

Post by wegfawefgawefg »

535188B17C93743 wrote: post #12
SnooSux wrote: post #5

To measure academic achievement they use First Year GPA. It makes sense they're correlated, both require studying known material for a test. But is GPA the best measure, especially first year? I would be interested in other metrics like 3rd-4th year GPA or placements into jobs and such.

I agree. Every other comment here seems to be like "well duh" and I'm... skeptical. My experience is that the ACT/SAT seem to be good indicators of getting good grades in well-defined spaces. But things like creativity, curiosity, work ethic are much better predictors of other kinds of success that frankly matter much more in the real world. I know some really, really unintelligent people who got good grades in colle…

its an IQ test. G proxy.

Re: Report on the role of standardized test scores in undergraduate admissions [pdf]

#19

Post by cowmix »

... but it still doesn't predict actual success in my experience. I was "gifted program" adjacent growing up (all my friends were in these programs in the late 70s -> 80s) -- all earned high grades and test scores -- but many are now puzzled why they are not showered with $$ and success into present day. Well, they don't think they are successful to where they should be.

Re: Report on the role of standardized test scores in undergraduate admissions [pdf]

#20

Post by thaumasiotes »

SnooSux wrote: post #5

To measure academic achievement they use First Year GPA. It makes sense they're correlated, both require studying known material for a test. But is GPA the best measure, especially first year? I would be interested in other metrics like 3rd-4th year GPA or placements into jobs and such.

The reason people measure first year GPA is that, in the past, all freshmen at a college took the same set of classes. If you measure 3rd year GPA, you get confounded by the difference between physics students and French students.

Obviously, the worth of the metric goes down over time as first-year curricula differentiate from each other.

> But is GPA the best measure, especially first year?

No. For example, SAT score is a better single measure than GPA is. But you can't use that to check the validity of SAT scores.

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